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Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

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191–200 of 295 posts

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Restarting from a full stop requires good pedestrian awareness. In city traffic, there might be people crossing in front of the car when it's stopped. Restart also requires getting the driver back on line. They're probably on a phone. That's why some driver input to start motion is desirable. The user interface problems for automatic driving are very tough.

I don't think the parent was talking about restarting from a full stop, it looks to me like he was saying that his car's radar-cruise system won't actually stop the car in heavy traffic, so if you're not paying attention and don't brake manually in time, you could rear-end someone.

Honda's system cuts out at some 'slow' speed like 35mph. If you don't do anything the car should fully stop but that's because you'll trigger the automatic emergency breaking.

The problem with the system is it's relatively simplistic. You set a following distance (there are 4 options) and the car will never get closer to the car in front of you than you've specified. It will slow down as necessary to maintain that distance.

This works fine on empty highways but in traffic it doesn't help. Since it won't go to (and resume) from a full stop you have to fiddle with it constantly. In tight traffic the distance has to be modified or people will continually jump in front of you (causing the car to slow down and back off).

I'll also say that it waits a surprisingly long time to start braking to the point it can be a little unnerving at times. I know it knows there is a car there (there is a symbol on the dash to show that it sees a car) but it doesn't act until you get much closer.

A system like Tesla or Volvo have that can bring the car to a stop and then speed back up or could decide to try to maintain a distance similar to that other drivers are maintaining would be much nicer.

Still for long trips the Honda system is great. And you can always put it in 'dumb' cruise control mode if necessary.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's sad that it doesn't handle heavy traffic well. That should be where it does best . Tesla's system, for example, is nice on the open road but absolutely wonderful in heavy traffic. Too bad about not handling full stops, too. I wonder if that's a technical limitation, or if it's just something they didn't want to allow.

Restarting from a full stop requires good pedestrian awareness. In city traffic, there might be people crossing in front of the car when it's stopped. Restart also requires getting the driver back on line. They're probably on a phone. That's why some driver input to start motion is desirable. The user interface problems for automatic driving are very tough.

I think that with cars that offer 'full stop' cruise control the driver must press a button to indicate that they're ready to roll again after the car has stopped it's self (or perhaps tap the gas).

Not positive, that what I remember hearing. That way it's still the driver's responsibility, but it's easy enough that it doesn't annoy the driver.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#193
post #27

This looks like the "Sensing" feature that Honda has implemented on some of their other vehicles. I just bought a 2016 Accord that does the same thing -- there's a camera mounted on the windshield, another camera in the front grille, and a radar sensor on the front bumper. Calling it "self-driving" is kind of a misnomer and I think the article kind of blows it out of proportion. It will track the car in front of you…

I have the 2016 Honda Civic LX with Sensing. It doesn't require me to keep my hands on wheel. However, it keeps losing the lane, requiring you to steer manually. Maybe the lane markings are not clear enough here in Los Angeles.

Also, the adaptive cruise control often brakes abruptly, even making the front collision warning system go off. I also don't know if it activates the brake lights when it brakes (since traditional cruse controls don't). This means that I usually brake manually.

All those things make this feature less useful than it should be. Before I bought this car, I actually did some research on this, but I haven't found any test that compares how well these features do in practice.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#194
Am I missing something? Why is this top news? There are several cars out there with adaptive cruise control. In fact, I think most mainstream cars offer it as an option now. It's pretty impressive but calling it "self-driving" is hyperbole.

Subaru's eyesight is technically even more impressive considering it does image processing to detect vehicles, whereas most of these systems are based on radar. Although I don't see the point because radar is more reliable IMO. Unless you use some features which only camera can provide (stop at traffic lights?), which Subaru doesn't yet do. From whatever research I did before buying a car, Volvo's system (uses both radar and camera) seems to be one of the best overall, along with Mercedes, and Subaru being a close third.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#195
I've owned three cars with automatic cruise control for the past decade. This isn't exactly new technology, perhaps only at this price point.

The first car I had with this, an '06 Infiniti, was only able to slow to a crawl, not a full stop. So while it was useful on the highway it was useless in stop and start.

The second car, a '11 BMW, added "Stop & Go" to the formula. Great? Not quite. What would happen is that the car would come to a full stop, and then a timer would run, and if the car didn't start moving again within 10 seconds the cruise control would shut off, and to resume you'd have to push the pedal. This was especially maddening when stop & start traffic is inconsistent and the stops last 10.5 seconds. Basically the idea of being able to set & forget was completely undermined by this and driving with the feature on was more stressful than driving with it off and just doing everything manually. A complete bust. I don't know why it does this but I can see it being some combination of the product team needing to ship the feature in the state it was in, and legal requirements.

The problem with both of these implementations is that they promised to alleviate some of the issues with past "auto-drive" features (and you should consider Cruise Control to be the very first auto drive feature), but introduce their own. If you want the user experience of set & forget, you need very predictable conditions if you want any of these mass market systems to work for you, and unfortunately that's just not the way the roads are.

I think I have the feature in my latest car too, but I've given up and decided to enjoy manually driving, and just wait for fully autonomous vehicles.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also really enjoy my Subaru EyeSight. I've only run into one terrible experience, and that is when I went into a automated car wash. As soon as the first big scrubby thing approached, the EyeSight flipped out and slammed on the brake, which was jolting and scary. Kind of obvious looking back on it, of course, and now I remember to turn it off when I wash my car.

You're supposed to turn off your car when you're in a car wash, so I'm not exactly sure that this was the car's fault :)

Perhaps for one where you are stationary...but I've never seen a tunnel wash that advised anything other than placing one's vehicle in Neutral.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to cut in, gaining an advantage over traffic, it behooves you to keep your intent undisclosed. Some drivers in the advantaged lane will make it difficult to merge if they see the intent, by closing the gaps. (Those who make it easy are enablers of cutting-in behavior, despised by everyone). It's safer if you don't announce your intent; you don't want to be encouraging the driver in the target lane to be t…

This is fucking ridiculous. Surely all drivers have to change lanes at some point to get where they're going; why do they all actively attempt to thwart other drivers from getting into the lanes they need?

I don't think it's about time or efficiency at all. I think it has to do with perceived fairness and our self-righteous culture. The faster-moving disappearing lane gets an inherent advantage, which could have been renounced by merging too early. People feel cheated. The problem is that, objectively, people merging all over the place creates more traffic than a uniform zipper merge so we all suffer.

In reality, the laws are very explicit (at least in GA where I live), and the person merging has priority. Anyone in an existing lane when a lane disappears is legally required to yield.

Additionally, everyone is entitled to this same advantage so it's really not unfair at all.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#198
post #27

This looks like the "Sensing" feature that Honda has implemented on some of their other vehicles. I just bought a 2016 Accord that does the same thing -- there's a camera mounted on the windshield, another camera in the front grille, and a radar sensor on the front bumper. Calling it "self-driving" is kind of a misnomer and I think the article kind of blows it out of proportion. It will track the car in front of you…

I just want to say, I have a similar vehicle system (Eyesight, rather than Honda Sensing) and I agree with everything you are saying. It isn't self-driving, it is just a bunch of really cool driver assist technology. Unfortunately the reason why these systems fail on sharp turns is that the lane-line literally falls outside of the camera's vision. Aside from adding two more cameras (which I'd welcome) I cannot see th…

AWD is actually not that important in safe driving. AWD ensures you can always go forward. In a bad situation you don't care about going forward, you care about stopping and steering. So brakes and tires matter. We all have 4 wheel brakes, so set there. Get some awesome snow tires and 2WD and you will steer/stop fine in the snow. Plow up a hill through snowbanks? Maybe not.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#200
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the parent was talking about restarting from a full stop, it looks to me like he was saying that his car's radar-cruise system won't actually stop the car in heavy traffic, so if you're not paying attention and don't brake manually in time, you could rear-end someone.

Honda's system cuts out at some 'slow' speed like 35mph. If you don't do anything the car should fully stop but that's because you'll trigger the automatic emergency breaking. The problem with the system is it's relatively simplistic. You set a following distance (there are 4 options) and the car will never get closer to the car in front of you than you've specified. It will slow down as necessary to maintain that di…

It seems weird that it would need to brake at all most of the time to maintain a following distance. Unless the car in front of you suddenly brakes or you're going down a steep hill or something, wind resistance usually provides all the braking you need at highway speeds.
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