Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use • Hacker News Board

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#131

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 8:35 PM UTC

jklowden wrote: post #94

ben1040 wrote: post #27

This looks like the "Sensing" feature that Honda has implemented on some of their other vehicles. I just bought a 2016 Accord that does the same thing -- there's a camera mounted on the windshield, another camera in the front grille, and a radar sensor on the front bumper. Calling it "self-driving" is kind of a misnomer and I think the article kind of blows it out of proportion. It will track the car in front of you…

Free-market ideology if you ask me. The first sentence suggests the hapless government wants to spent $4 billion on research for something you you can have today for $20K. A little later it mentions Washington's "time and billions" spent on fuel-efficiency instead of "saving lives". The government has also funded electric-car research and encouraged Detroit to build them. Contrasting self-driving with electric drive…

[deleted]

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#132

Post by mikeash » Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 8:35 PM UTC

akamaka wrote: post #79

ben1040 wrote: post #27

This looks like the "Sensing" feature that Honda has implemented on some of their other vehicles. I just bought a 2016 Accord that does the same thing -- there's a camera mounted on the windshield, another camera in the front grille, and a radar sensor on the front bumper. Calling it "self-driving" is kind of a misnomer and I think the article kind of blows it out of proportion. It will track the car in front of you…

I blame Elon Musk for this shift in the meaning of "self-driving". It used to be a term that was only applied to driverless cars, but last year Elon announced that they plan to make the Tesla a self-driving car at the same time as announcing similar driver assistance features. While Tesla's driver assistance features are much more advanced than these, it's not much of a stretch after Elon already fired the first mark…

When did he shift the goalpost?

People are indeed quite confused about what current driver assist features are capable of, but Tesla has been quite clear about exactly what they offer now, what they plan to offer in the near term, and what they hope to offer in the longer term.

The main problem I've seen people complain about is the use of the word "autopilot" to describe Tesla's features. And that's only because people don't understand what a real airplane autopilot does. I blame the general population for jumping to conclusions.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#133

Post by bdrool » Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 8:37 PM UTC

jklowden wrote: post #94

ben1040 wrote: post #27

This looks like the "Sensing" feature that Honda has implemented on some of their other vehicles. I just bought a 2016 Accord that does the same thing -- there's a camera mounted on the windshield, another camera in the front grille, and a radar sensor on the front bumper. Calling it "self-driving" is kind of a misnomer and I think the article kind of blows it out of proportion. It will track the car in front of you…

Free-market ideology if you ask me. The first sentence suggests the hapless government wants to spent $4 billion on research for something you you can have today for $20K. A little later it mentions Washington's "time and billions" spent on fuel-efficiency instead of "saving lives". The government has also funded electric-car research and encouraged Detroit to build them. Contrasting self-driving with electric drive…

This is what happens when Rupert Murdoch runs a "news" source.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#134

Post by mikeash » Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 8:37 PM UTC

MBCook wrote: post #109

ben1040 wrote: post #27

This looks like the "Sensing" feature that Honda has implemented on some of their other vehicles. I just bought a 2016 Accord that does the same thing -- there's a camera mounted on the windshield, another camera in the front grille, and a radar sensor on the front bumper. Calling it "self-driving" is kind of a misnomer and I think the article kind of blows it out of proportion. It will track the car in front of you…

I've got the same car and you're dead on. I really wanted the automatic cruise control but the truth is it's a hassle in the city on the highway. I don't want to constantly adjust the distance between the car in front of me and my car as conditions change so I end up just managing it myself without cruise control or setting it 'classic' mode where it doesn't use the radar. That said shortly after I bought the car I d…

That's sad that it doesn't handle heavy traffic well. That should be where it does best. Tesla's system, for example, is nice on the open road but absolutely wonderful in heavy traffic.

Too bad about not handling full stops, too. I wonder if that's a technical limitation, or if it's just something they didn't want to allow.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#135

Post by jklowden » Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 8:37 PM UTC

randyrand wrote: post #103

jklowden wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free-market ideology if you ask me. The first sentence suggests the hapless government wants to spent $4 billion on research for something you you can have today for $20K. A little later it mentions Washington's "time and billions" spent on fuel-efficiency instead of "saving lives". The government has also funded electric-car research and encouraged Detroit to build them. Contrasting self-driving with electric drive…

Seat belts were invented by English engineer George Cayley in the mid-19th century,[3] though Edward J. Claghorn of New York, was granted the first patent. The government did not invent the seatbelt. All it did was monopolize it through the patent system and later criminalize not wearing it. How heroic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seat_belt

I didn't mean to suggest the government invented seat belts. It did mandate them, not only wearing them, but circa 1964 their very availability in cars. The industry, and a fair number of car buyers, didn't want buyers to be reminded that cars could be dangerous.

Heroic? No, but what government is heroic? That seat belts and seat belt laws save lives every year is indisputable. Perhaps to you that's an impermissible curtailment on your right to die in a crash. It might help to remember also benefit indirectly through lower insurance premiums.

(In answer down thread to why I posted my reply, apologies. I meant to reply to another question about why the article mentioned electric cars, but clicked the wrong link.)

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#136

Post by olympus » Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 8:38 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #63

ben1040 wrote: post #27

This looks like the "Sensing" feature that Honda has implemented on some of their other vehicles. I just bought a 2016 Accord that does the same thing -- there's a camera mounted on the windshield, another camera in the front grille, and a radar sensor on the front bumper. Calling it "self-driving" is kind of a misnomer and I think the article kind of blows it out of proportion. It will track the car in front of you…

I just want to say, I have a similar vehicle system (Eyesight, rather than Honda Sensing) and I agree with everything you are saying. It isn't self-driving, it is just a bunch of really cool driver assist technology. Unfortunately the reason why these systems fail on sharp turns is that the lane-line literally falls outside of the camera's vision. Aside from adding two more cameras (which I'd welcome) I cannot see th…

Subaru has the best overall value with their Eyesight system when considered with the rest of the car IMHO. It's why I bought my Forester (not in the price range of the Civic). Definitely not self driving, but adaptive cruise control works in steady traffic- it has a tendency to "rubber-band" when traffic changes speeds- and has saved my bacon by preventing a collision when the car in front of me stopped. The only downside is that it is fully camera based and has no radar at all, and on a road trip heading west this winter the setting sun killed the Eyesight system and the cruise control completely disengaged and I had to manually control my speed for about an hour.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#137

Post by libraryatnight » Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 8:38 PM UTC

ben1040 wrote: post #27

This looks like the "Sensing" feature that Honda has implemented on some of their other vehicles. I just bought a 2016 Accord that does the same thing -- there's a camera mounted on the windshield, another camera in the front grille, and a radar sensor on the front bumper. Calling it "self-driving" is kind of a misnomer and I think the article kind of blows it out of proportion. It will track the car in front of you…

I just bought the 2016 Civic Touring last week and it came with this. It certainly seems to be getting ahead of things to say it's self-driving. Your description is accurate, it's more of a helper than truly autonomous. I will say I was concerned, because there was a Car and Driver review where they seemed to indicate it had issues thinking you were drifting and trying to correct when you were fine, but I haven't had a problem. It detects the lane very well, and the cruise control works like a champ.

I am glad to see features like this coming to less expensive vehicles.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#138

Post by chiph » Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 8:39 PM UTC

bliti wrote: post #126

The elephant in the room is this one: When will highways be upgraded/updated for self driving? I don't mean V2I (vehicle to infrastructure) capabilities, but properly painted and maintained lane lines, reflectors, and signage. The infrastructure is just not there. You can't simply rely on a car's sensing abilities for self driving.

That $4bn could go a fair way towards developing a longer-lasting highway paint, then restriping the interstates with it.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#139

Post by maxerickson » Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 8:40 PM UTC

vonmoltke wrote: post #85

turtlebits wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once cars are autonomous, it makes it drastically simpler to carpool/rideshare or even pick up and drop off riders that may share the same or partial route as you. Also if your car is able to drop you off, it can be a shared resource when you don't need it.

I want to reply to all three of you (turtlebits, maxerickson, teod) with basically the same points. I'll put it here because yours is currently the top-ranked reply, but I am going to address all three of you. > Once cars are autonomous, it makes it drastically simpler to carpool/rideshare or even pick up and drop off riders that may share the same or partial route as you. I don't see how it is drastically simpler. Y…

I think there are a lot of people that would say yes any time it would save them $5 or $10 without costing them much time.

I agree there are also lots of people that won't set the car to prompt them with questions about picking someone else up.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#140

Post by gnaritas » Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 8:40 PM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #50

mchahn wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and am currently in the middle of a 360. You have no faith in AI. The car will always be better at driving than the human. It would be much better at handling a 360 than a human ever could. Actually humans are very bad at handling 360s unless you are a pro.

Humans are very, very good at handling unknown complex situations. In order for any AI to handle any situation, it must first be programmed to do so. If that situation was an unknown, you get undefined behavior. Undefined behavior in a car traveling down the road is not a good thing to place a bet on... especially your life. This is why majority of sane driverless vehicle talk has concluded a human driver must always…

> In order for any AI to handle any situation, it must first be programmed to do so. If that situation was an unknown, you get undefined behavior.

No, that's not how AI nor computers work. It's quite trivial to have a default behavior like "brake", the notion that a new situation will confuse the computer is just you watching too many movies.