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Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

wsj.com

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Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#91

Post by Someone1234 »

BrandonY wrote: post #73
Someone1234 wrote: post #11

Just for comparison, you can get a Subaru Legacy Premium with Eyesight for $25,835 (or a Crosstrek for thereabouts, and an Outback for $2-3K more), since at least summer 2015. So nothing Honda are doing here is revolutionary technologically, they're just bringing the same technology to a new market ($5K cheaper), which is still something. I highly recommend that if you invest in THIS technology that you go all in and…

I also really enjoy my Subaru EyeSight. I've only run into one terrible experience, and that is when I went into a automated car wash. As soon as the first big scrubby thing approached, the EyeSight flipped out and slammed on the brake, which was jolting and scary. Kind of obvious looking back on it, of course, and now I remember to turn it off when I wash my car.

They now warn you in the manual expressly about that (specifically mention car washes too). Although I'm sure that was an addition, and I'm also sure many people won't read the manual (and Subaru's manuals aren't the nicest manuals around as an aside).

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#92

Post by Alupis »

sp332 wrote: post #81
Alupis wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans are very, very good at handling unknown complex situations. In order for any AI to handle any situation, it must first be programmed to do so. If that situation was an unknown, you get undefined behavior. Undefined behavior in a car traveling down the road is not a good thing to place a bet on... especially your life. This is why majority of sane driverless vehicle talk has concluded a human driver must always…

But you only have to program it once and then all the cars get the update. That's a lot better than hoping every individual human got properly trained and remembers what to do. The list of situations a car has to react to is not infinite. You can program a reasonable response for a broader list of situations than you could for a human. And really, a human would fare very badly in your situations so a computer could h…

> But you only have to program it once and then all the cars get the update

Not exactly. The situations we're discussing are more-or-less unique, having their own environment variables to contend with.

Not to mention, there are scenarios where a driverless car will never be able to operate (such as off roads, or back-country/non-mapped areas, or when road lines are covered by snow or just not there due to road construction, etc...).

Roads are anything but a constant. I cannot foresee any future where someone can get into a vehicle, in the back seat, tell the vehicle where to go, and then promptly take a nap.

Even with high-grade multi-million dollar vehicles such as military drones, they still require two humans to be at the controls at any time (even though in the air, collision opportunities are almost non-existent). The sensors and computers in a mere $20,000 vehicle aren't going to compete with this stuff.

A human will always have to pay attention to the road and be ready to take control. This aspect almost completely nullifies the desire for a driverless vehicle.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#93

Post by mywittyname »

tdicola wrote: post #49
nostromo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I could get in my car, read a bit and fall asleep, and wake up in Las Vegas from San Francisco, I'd prefer it over flying every time. But this has more to do with how air travel has become miserable than anything else.

You can do this with buses today.

But you probably need a car when you get there and bus service is not nearly as comprehensive as planes.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#94

Post by jklowden »

ben1040 wrote: post #27

This looks like the "Sensing" feature that Honda has implemented on some of their other vehicles. I just bought a 2016 Accord that does the same thing -- there's a camera mounted on the windshield, another camera in the front grille, and a radar sensor on the front bumper. Calling it "self-driving" is kind of a misnomer and I think the article kind of blows it out of proportion. It will track the car in front of you…

Free-market ideology if you ask me. The first sentence suggests the hapless government wants to spent $4 billion on research for something you you can have today for $20K. A little later it mentions Washington's "time and billions" spent on fuel-efficiency instead of "saving lives". The government has also funded electric-car research and encouraged Detroit to build them. Contrasting self-driving with electric drive is just another way to suggest the dead hand of bureaucracy is impeding the invisible hand of the market.

By the way, the government has saved drivers' lives, too, by the thousands, more often than not over industry objection. Seat belts, unleaded fuel, crumple zones: it's a long list. The article's bias isn't just bias; it slants away from the facts.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#96

Post by knurdle »

Someone1234 wrote: post #11

Just for comparison, you can get a Subaru Legacy Premium with Eyesight for $25,835 (or a Crosstrek for thereabouts, and an Outback for $2-3K more), since at least summer 2015. So nothing Honda are doing here is revolutionary technologically, they're just bringing the same technology to a new market ($5K cheaper), which is still something. I highly recommend that if you invest in THIS technology that you go all in and…

We have a 2016 Legacy with the eyesight system and I actually use it a lot in traffic.

It's really useful in "stop" and go traffic where you're barely moving. I just set the adaptive cruise control and it makes driving feel a lot more relaxed. I'm not sitting there alternating between the gas and brake every 15 seconds. It's a great system, I can't imagine having another car without this kind of system in place.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#97

Post by superuser2 »

jklowden wrote: post #94
ben1040 wrote: post #27

This looks like the "Sensing" feature that Honda has implemented on some of their other vehicles. I just bought a 2016 Accord that does the same thing -- there's a camera mounted on the windshield, another camera in the front grille, and a radar sensor on the front bumper. Calling it "self-driving" is kind of a misnomer and I think the article kind of blows it out of proportion. It will track the car in front of you…

Free-market ideology if you ask me. The first sentence suggests the hapless government wants to spent $4 billion on research for something you you can have today for $20K. A little later it mentions Washington's "time and billions" spent on fuel-efficiency instead of "saving lives". The government has also funded electric-car research and encouraged Detroit to build them. Contrasting self-driving with electric drive…

How is this in any way a reply to the parent comment?

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#98

Post by dagw »

Gratsby wrote: post #66
ben1040 wrote: post #27

This looks like the "Sensing" feature that Honda has implemented on some of their other vehicles. I just bought a 2016 Accord that does the same thing -- there's a camera mounted on the windshield, another camera in the front grille, and a radar sensor on the front bumper. Calling it "self-driving" is kind of a misnomer and I think the article kind of blows it out of proportion. It will track the car in front of you…

Mercedes has had the ability to keep a safe following distance for a decade or more. The lane assist is not something I've heard of, but I stopped staring at the latest and greatest features on cars around the time that Mercedes came out with the follow feature.

Lots of cars have had these features for a while, but it's really only been in the higher end models. What's interesting is that it's becoming available in cheaper cars now, and is a step towards it becoming a standard featured in all cars.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#99

Post by dwiel »

vonmoltke wrote: post #85
turtlebits wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once cars are autonomous, it makes it drastically simpler to carpool/rideshare or even pick up and drop off riders that may share the same or partial route as you. Also if your car is able to drop you off, it can be a shared resource when you don't need it.

I want to reply to all three of you (turtlebits, maxerickson, teod) with basically the same points. I'll put it here because yours is currently the top-ranked reply, but I am going to address all three of you. > Once cars are autonomous, it makes it drastically simpler to carpool/rideshare or even pick up and drop off riders that may share the same or partial route as you. I don't see how it is drastically simpler. Y…

from another post above a trip from SF to Vegas is 569 miles and 8 hours. The standard reimbursement (gas + wear and tear) is $0.50/mile. So that is $260 in gas + wear and tear. a quick search finds taxi drivers are $13/hr - $20/hr. that is an additional $104 - $160.

The slower your drive, the higher a percentage the taxi driver will account for.

Another site mentions that 2/3 of the taxi fare is going towards gas + driver pay: http://work.chron.com/much-fare-taxi-drivers-keep-22871.html

It sounds like self-driving cars could lower costs by 30% - 60% just from labor savings.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#100

Post by dsmithatx »

Sounds like these cars are far from self driving. Just some added safety features that resemble self driving but, are dangerous to use without a foot near the break and hands on the wheel.

I think this sentence pretty much says it all, "For instance, some owners have posted videos of hands- and foot-free driving on YouTube and the car inevitably makes a mistake.".

It sounds like these features are going to end up being abused and probably causing serious fatalities. As we have seen people want to txt and even watch movies while driving. These new features will allow wreck less drivers to pay less attention to driving and more attention to how many Instagram followers they have.

I'll be sure to pay more attention to people driving Honda civics when I'm on the highway.

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