Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use • Hacker News Board

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#61

Post by fluxquanta » Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 7:39 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #11

Just for comparison, you can get a Subaru Legacy Premium with Eyesight for $25,835 (or a Crosstrek for thereabouts, and an Outback for $2-3K more), since at least summer 2015. So nothing Honda are doing here is revolutionary technologically, they're just bringing the same technology to a new market ($5K cheaper), which is still something. I highly recommend that if you invest in THIS technology that you go all in and…

My brother purchased a 2016 Subaru Outback with Eyesight and his comments to me have largely been the same. The only complaint I've heard is that if it's snowing or the roads have snow cover many of the features are unreliable. His praise when the roads are clear, however, has convinced me to look into it when my current lease expires at the end of this year.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#62

Post by edc117 » Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 7:39 PM UTC

kazinator wrote: post #15

Americans could rather use a robot highway driving instructor. "Consider moving over to the right line; you're driving at the speed limit, and a speeding car is approaching; you may confirm this in the rear-view mirror." "I have detected that you came to a full stop at the end of a generous freeway entrance ramp in light traffic. Suggested future action: look over the shoulder as early as possible and match the speed…

I agree completely, but the very first thing they'd do would be figure out how to turn it off or muffle it. Bad drivers are not the type to take feedback well or let things like the rules get in the way.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#63

Post by Someone1234 » Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 7:40 PM UTC

ben1040 wrote: post #27

This looks like the "Sensing" feature that Honda has implemented on some of their other vehicles. I just bought a 2016 Accord that does the same thing -- there's a camera mounted on the windshield, another camera in the front grille, and a radar sensor on the front bumper. Calling it "self-driving" is kind of a misnomer and I think the article kind of blows it out of proportion. It will track the car in front of you…

I just want to say, I have a similar vehicle system (Eyesight, rather than Honda Sensing) and I agree with everything you are saying. It isn't self-driving, it is just a bunch of really cool driver assist technology.

Unfortunately the reason why these systems fail on sharp turns is that the lane-line literally falls outside of the camera's vision. Aside from adding two more cameras (which I'd welcome) I cannot see them fixing it in software.

I totally would have purchased a 2016 Accord but no all-wheel-drive option. To me AWD, Blind Spot, Cross Traffic, and Eyesight made for one amazing overall safety package. The Accord has some nice unique features (e.g. Android Auto) but they need more than just Honda Sensing as OPTIONS.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#64

Post by encoderer » Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 7:41 PM UTC

It might take a while before self driving is widely available, but self stopping is here today. It's now standard equipment in all new Mercedes -- including cars selling for about $30k. I have an entry-level Mercedes and it includes blind spot radar, lane tracking, and collision avoidance that will stop your car automatically if you're distracted or incapacitated. These features are available widely from most automakers now.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#65

Post by TrevorJ » Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 7:42 PM UTC

ska wrote: post #38

TrevorJ wrote: post #4

The real problem with self-driving cars is the car to human handoff. Over the long term it's incredible unlikely that humans will be any good at all at remaining aware and 'up to speed' on the current situation in the event that the car needs to give control back to the driver due to road conditions, hardware failure, or sudden situation that it cannot contend with.

That assumes that you have a car to human handoff, and that it would be useful. Honestly that's a pretty strong assumption because of the reasons that you mention and related issues. The technological solution may be that there is no (or vanishingly small numbers) situation where emergency transfer is likely to improve outcomes. So you just don't do it. Non-emergency (i.e. I'm going to park now and hand off control t…

My personal feeling is that you are right: the best/only way this will work long term is if it works without humans needing to be in the loop.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#66

Post by Gratsby » Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 7:42 PM UTC

ben1040 wrote: post #27

This looks like the "Sensing" feature that Honda has implemented on some of their other vehicles. I just bought a 2016 Accord that does the same thing -- there's a camera mounted on the windshield, another camera in the front grille, and a radar sensor on the front bumper. Calling it "self-driving" is kind of a misnomer and I think the article kind of blows it out of proportion. It will track the car in front of you…

Mercedes has had the ability to keep a safe following distance for a decade or more. The lane assist is not something I've heard of, but I stopped staring at the latest and greatest features on cars around the time that Mercedes came out with the follow feature.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#67

Post by Negative1 » Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 7:42 PM UTC

The title is a bit misleading. I have a 2016 Civic Touring that has the Sensing Package. It's effectively a sensor package (cameras in the top-middle of the windshield and below passenger-side headlight) with integration with the steering and powertrain systems and very basic logic.

When you turn it on the car basically tries to stay in your lane by looking at the lines on the road. It actually tells you when it can and cannot see the lines. When it detects you going outside of the lane (without using your signal) it takes control of steering and corrects for you. You can also set it to stay within some distance of the car in front of you and it will control your speed. Supposedly, it will also auto-brake if you are in danger of collision but I haven't had a chance to test that yet (and hope not to have to).

The whole thing is more like a driver assistance system and if you take your hands off the wheel for more than 15 seconds or so a bunch of alerts start going off and the system disengages. After using it for a few months I think this is probably a good idea. There are quite a few places in the SF Bay area that have worn out and faded lines on the road and once the system loses sight of the lane markers it just stops working. Not a great moment to have your hands off the wheel or your eyes closed. ;-)

For the price its incredible that Honda offers something like this. Suburu offers something similar but the next best thing is buying a Tesla for much more. I treat it sort of as insurance on long trips. If I start dozing off or am distracted the system keeps me in check but it is not reliable enough to be truly autonomous. So yeah, it can sort of drive autonomously.

As a preview of the future it gives me hope and it's possible this may be the last car I actually buy (when cars drive themselves it could very well become a service industry).

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#68

Post by MattHeard » Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 7:42 PM UTC

hmahncke wrote: post #57

mikeash wrote: post #31

The article really wants to compare with electric vehicles, for some reason. The subheading says "they are being snapped up faster than electrified vehicles." This is repeated in the article, which says the relevant options packages "are being snapped up at a far higher rate than electrified vehicles." Discussing the Q50's technology package and how many buyers opt for it, it says "That’s three times as many people w…

I noticed the same thing, and my guess is that the WSJ is generally dismissive of climate change risk, and against government incentives to combat climate change, and wanted to frame this article as what the government should be doing instead of encouraging hybrid/electric vehicles.

From the article:

> After a decade of spending much of its time and billions focused on boosting fuel-efficiency, Washington is increasing its focus on technology that could save lives.

This ignores that one of the justifications for fuel-efficiency regulation is the lives saved from reduced pollution.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#69

Post by guscost » Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 7:43 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #31

The article really wants to compare with electric vehicles, for some reason. The subheading says "they are being snapped up faster than electrified vehicles." This is repeated in the article, which says the relevant options packages "are being snapped up at a far higher rate than electrified vehicles." Discussing the Q50's technology package and how many buyers opt for it, it says "That’s three times as many people w…

The WSJ is a paper for stock market professionals, their traditional customers want over-simplified "predictions for one sector vs another sector" and you see it in a lot of their business reporting.

There's also the possibility that this story (including choice phrases) was handed to the author by someone in PR.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#70

Post by BuckRogers » Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 7:44 PM UTC

artmageddon wrote: post #22

resoluteteeth wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With self-driving cars it would probably be possible to design the seats so that with only one passenger it would be possible to lie down fully. This could make overnight drives in personal cars quite pleasant relative to buses.

> With self-driving cars it would probably be possible to design the seats so that with only one passenger it would be possible to lie down fully. Is there a way to properly and safely restrain someone who is lying down when a collision occurs? I can only imagine the number of broken necks or spinal compression injuries resulting from hitting another vehicle at 60mph+.

If you're lying down sideways and as you buckle in airbags inflate around you before you take off, in the event of an accident other than a rude awakening you should be in better shape than today. Accidents should be far less brutal anyway once we ban human driven vehicles.