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Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

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Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#451
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off-topic: we (the human species) have built an AI that can master the game of Go, but we don't yet have the intelligence to publish charts correctly on the web. That blur of a JPG is half a megabyte!

It didn't master anything. What the DeepMind team did was make an "AI" which means it can _imitate_ (to a certain degree) of "playing go".

What's the difference between "imitating" playing go and playing go, when it can beat any one us at go?

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a number of moves that made absolutely no sense at all even to way lower level players. Another possibility is that it was looking way deeper than anybody, and there was a 1% chance or turning the whole game around with those seemingly bad moves. But Lee Sedol blocked that deep move in a way nobody was able to see.

No. That is not what happened. They were genuinely bad moves.

You don't have the authority to make that call unless you intimately understand how it AlphaGo works. Please stop.

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are relying too much on the concept of a generalized mental capacity, which many researchers (maybe even most) would say does not exist. You seem to be assuming that grandmasters are just amazingly smart and they happen to apply those smarts to one particular skill, but what's closer to the truth is that they happen to be particularly amazing at that one skill, in a way that doesn't really correlate strongly with…

If you took the people who would have grown up to be chess grandmasters, intercepted them just before they started spending significant amounts of time studying chess, and had them instead spend all that time studying programming or physics or something, how do you think they would rank up? You seem to be arguing against the idea, "A chess grandmaster is a genius and therefore can walk into Google and immediately sta…

>I don't think anyone believes this (correct me if I'm wrong).

While not exactly what you wrote, people do think that someone is a genius at some subject can become a genius at another area with less work than it took for someone in either field to originally become a genius at that field, especially society groups the areas together (so sports star becoming master programmer is far less likely to be believed than chess master becoming master programmer).

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#456

Bizarre. I felt a palpable sense of relief when I read this. Silly meat-brain that I am.

Living flesh is not meat. Meat is what we call dead flesh. A living brain is made of neural nano-processors.

negative, I am a meat popsicle.

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. That is not what happened. They were genuinely bad moves.

You don't have the authority to make that call unless you intimately understand how it AlphaGo works. Please stop.

He's right. The 9d commentators just laughed them off. They were the kinds of moves a 25k might play hoping that his opponent would make a silly mistake. That's exactly what AlphaGo was trying to do. The moves it played did have a "slight" chance of working, if Lee Sedol had responded incorrectly, but that would have never happened. They were the kinds of moves that are insulting when an opponent plays them against me and I'm just a weak amateur player. The moves clearly had no depth to them, and everyone that understands the game agrees on that.

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#458

In the post-game press conference I think Lee Sedol said something like "Before the matches I was thinking the result would be 5-0 or 4-1 in my favor, but then I lost 3 straight... I would not exchange this win for anything in the world." Demis Hassabis said of Lee Sedol: "Incredible fighting spirit after 3 defeats" I can definitely relate to what Lee Sedol might be feeling. Very happy for both sides. The fact that p…

I've read some articles in Korean press that suggested AlphaGo team picked Lee as their match and not Ke Jie (currently #1 ranked, 19 years young) because there's a lot more public records of Lee's plays over his much longer pro career (nearly 20 years now). Thus more material for AlphaGo to train with and against. So it's not totally arrogant of Ke Jie to suggest he could beat AlphaGo. AlphaGo has not much 'experien…

Many of the reinforcement learning techniques require data sets in the billions to make much sense of it all. This is likely the reason why the AI had to play against itself so much, because there simply wasn't enough data in general, even including all recorded games.

So Lee's games are sort of a drop in a bucket as far the performance of the AI goes.

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#460
post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know the formatting system. My question is why the users are formatting their text (e.g. with 4 places leading each line) *suc that HN renders it as monospace, which then forces a sideways scroll on mobile and small screens. That seems to make it harder to read for some with no corresponding upside.

Oh. Well, I think they just don't realize that HN will monospace it. I agree with you, it's annoying.

They don't realize it even after seeing their post go live? And seeing what other people's monotype quotes look like?

I never like to assume malice, but ...

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