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Youngest Kids in Class at Higher Risk of ADHD Diagnosis

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Re: Youngest Kids in Class at Higher Risk of ADHD Diagnosis

#51

Post by DanBC »

over wrote: post #43
DanBC wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whenever you impose a disciplinary sanction, it's implicit that if the sanction is not respected, it will be replaced by an alternative, at least as harsh sanction, and eventually the alternative sanction will be violent. Jesus fucking christ no it isn't. Your boss doesn't punch you for not filing your TPS reports; your spouse doesn't hit you for not doing the shopping. Don't hit children. Learn how to parent. The…

> Your boss doesn't punch you for not filing your TPS reports; your spouse doesn't hit you for not doing the shopping. You're right, but he also has a point in that eventually, if you just don't do things, the cops will drag you away. Eventual violence is a cornerstone of order in our society. I find this unpalatable, but at least another cornerstone of order is motivation to do good things. Just as short timeouts ar…

> open-handed slaps on the butt are not gang beatings. It's generally the parent that determines whether the punishment is abusive, not the type of punishment itself.

No, this is criminal in many countries and any parent who hits a child is incompetent.

Hitting a child is unambiguously abusive in many countries, because we see that the parent lacks skill.

Re: Youngest Kids in Class at Higher Risk of ADHD Diagnosis

#52

Post by [deleted] »

sweetHack wrote: post #32
icanhackit wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you got a personal, air conditioned office, received unlimited time and could use reference material [...] They sold the Ritalin and got better grades As unfair as that seems to the students who took their finals in stadium seating, that's a pretty sweet hack. The system is fucked up, but I can't help but admire your friends deciding to use it to their advantage.

> a pretty sweet hack. Yeah, the kind that gets people hopelessly addicted to amphetamines.

[deleted]

Re: Youngest Kids in Class at Higher Risk of ADHD Diagnosis

#53

Post by RhysU »

BurningFrog wrote: post #17

This is just one of several disadvantages for kids born towards the end of the year. One logical solution is to have two classes per year. Kids born Jan-June start in the fall, the rest the following spring.

Another, deliberately distasteful, one would be to incentivize reproducing to ensure one's family doesn't run afoul of the cutoffs.

Re: Youngest Kids in Class at Higher Risk of ADHD Diagnosis

#54

Post by unimpressive »

icanhackit wrote: post #23
Spooky23 wrote: post #21

It's a great illustration of the lack of rigor around this stuff. My college provided significant benefits to ADHD diagnosed students. Rather than take finals in stadium seating, you got a personal, air conditioned office, received unlimited time and could use reference material. A few of my friends found a "Do you need Ritalin" quizzes in a magazine, went to a doc-in-the-box and got the diagnosis. They sold the Rita…

you got a personal, air conditioned office, received unlimited time and could use reference material [...] They sold the Ritalin and got better grades As unfair as that seems to the students who took their finals in stadium seating, that's a pretty sweet hack. The system is fucked up, but I can't help but admire your friends deciding to use it to their advantage.

>that's a pretty sweet hack.

Really? Lying about having serious developmental disorders is a 'sweet hack' now?

I mean, the comments below are overstating things but the danger of amphetamine addiction (especially for people who are using the meds off prescription and are more likely to do especially risky behaviors like snort it) is there and selling the Ritalin is a felony and everything about this story is actually pretty terrible.

Re: Youngest Kids in Class at Higher Risk of ADHD Diagnosis

#55

Post by notthegov »

ap22213 wrote: post #49
Spooky23 wrote: post #21

It's a great illustration of the lack of rigor around this stuff. My college provided significant benefits to ADHD diagnosed students. Rather than take finals in stadium seating, you got a personal, air conditioned office, received unlimited time and could use reference material. A few of my friends found a "Do you need Ritalin" quizzes in a magazine, went to a doc-in-the-box and got the diagnosis. They sold the Rita…

There's probably over diagnosis, but since ADHD medications are safe at low doses, there's not much downside with over diagnosis. On the other hand, there's 2-8% of the general population that has ADHD, and those individuals gain significant benefits from medication. If you're unsure if ADHD really exists, it may be useful to read the genetic studies that show ADHD correlation with specific SNPs, and decide for yours…

But the doctors prescribing the amphetamines aren't thinking about actual solutions or alternatives; they just go through the motions and cash checks.

My roommate was one of the largest Adderall prescribers in the United States. He has 20 cars, 3 homes and brags that he spends money "like a trillionaire". If you ask him where he lives, his response is, "what day?"

He is about 150 pounds overweight, dresses like a 90s rockstar and usually drives a Lamborghini Aventador. I don't trust he is impartial or an expert in his prescribing people what is effectively a daily routine of methamphetamine.

I know a few people who are prescribed Adderall who have attempted suicide. It's very easy to abuse amphetamines and abusing them makes one irrational. Meth has destroyed my hometown and as Dr. Carl Hart states, there is really no difference between Adderall and methamphetamine.

It is very dangerous to suggest that you can cure lack of focus by amphetamines, or that somehow this "ADHD" disease can only be cured by amphetamines.

Re: Youngest Kids in Class at Higher Risk of ADHD Diagnosis

#57

Post by over »

DanBC wrote: post #51
over wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your boss doesn't punch you for not filing your TPS reports; your spouse doesn't hit you for not doing the shopping. You're right, but he also has a point in that eventually, if you just don't do things, the cops will drag you away. Eventual violence is a cornerstone of order in our society. I find this unpalatable, but at least another cornerstone of order is motivation to do good things. Just as short timeouts ar…

> open-handed slaps on the butt are not gang beatings. It's generally the parent that determines whether the punishment is abusive, not the type of punishment itself. No, this is criminal in many countries and any parent who hits a child is incompetent. Hitting a child is unambiguously abusive in many countries, because we see that the parent lacks skill.

Well, I disagree I guess. (Yes, it's criminal in ~50 countries.) In general I believe there's a middle ground to be found on just about any issue, and that given enough perspective there are pros and cons to any situation. More than anything else, the practice of seeking this middle ground has helped me to deal with the effects of growing up in an abusive environment.

Re: Youngest Kids in Class at Higher Risk of ADHD Diagnosis

#58

Post by almightygod »

notthegov wrote: post #55
ap22213 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's probably over diagnosis, but since ADHD medications are safe at low doses, there's not much downside with over diagnosis. On the other hand, there's 2-8% of the general population that has ADHD, and those individuals gain significant benefits from medication. If you're unsure if ADHD really exists, it may be useful to read the genetic studies that show ADHD correlation with specific SNPs, and decide for yours…

But the doctors prescribing the amphetamines aren't thinking about actual solutions or alternatives; they just go through the motions and cash checks. My roommate was one of the largest Adderall prescribers in the United States. He has 20 cars, 3 homes and brags that he spends money "like a trillionaire". If you ask him where he lives, his response is, "what day?" He is about 150 pounds overweight, dresses like a 90s…

I find your anecdotal evidence satisfactory to caste judgment on doctors that prescribe medication for ADHD

Re: Youngest Kids in Class at Higher Risk of ADHD Diagnosis

#59

Post by icanhackit »

unimpressive wrote: post #54
icanhackit wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you got a personal, air conditioned office, received unlimited time and could use reference material [...] They sold the Ritalin and got better grades As unfair as that seems to the students who took their finals in stadium seating, that's a pretty sweet hack. The system is fucked up, but I can't help but admire your friends deciding to use it to their advantage.

>that's a pretty sweet hack. Really? Lying about having serious developmental disorders is a 'sweet hack' now? I mean, the comments below are overstating things but the danger of amphetamine addiction (especially for people who are using the meds off prescription and are more likely to do especially risky behaviors like snort it) is there and selling the Ritalin is a felony and everything about this story is actually…

> Lying about having serious developmental disorders is a 'sweet hack' now?

Your perspective on this will depend on whether you lean towards legalizing substances and taxing them. I personally think the prohibition of drugs does far more damage than consumption, and I consider this scenario to be similar to the easy access to medical marijuana - all it took was filling out a quiz and getting an easy diagnosis. Reselling marijuana is illegal, but it's an everyday occurrence that fills DEMAND.

> using the meds off prescription and are more likely to do especially risky behaviors like snort it

As long as you support the legality of alcohol, your worry about someone hurting themselves on drugs ignores the everyday harm already done by the most dangerous yet easily acquired behavior-altering substance. As for snorting amphetamines - people have been snorting, smoking, and imbibing things since the early days of humanity. It won't be going away soon and, until it affects you directly, it's none of your business really.

Re: Youngest Kids in Class at Higher Risk of ADHD Diagnosis

#60

Post by unimpressive »

icanhackit wrote: post #59
unimpressive wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>that's a pretty sweet hack. Really? Lying about having serious developmental disorders is a 'sweet hack' now? I mean, the comments below are overstating things but the danger of amphetamine addiction (especially for people who are using the meds off prescription and are more likely to do especially risky behaviors like snort it) is there and selling the Ritalin is a felony and everything about this story is actually…

> Lying about having serious developmental disorders is a 'sweet hack' now? Your perspective on this will depend on whether you lean towards legalizing substances and taxing them. I personally think the prohibition of drugs does far more damage than consumption, and I consider this scenario to be similar to the easy access to medical marijuana - all it took was filling out a quiz and getting an easy diagnosis. Resell…

>Your perspective on this will depend on whether you lean towards legalizing substances and taxing them.

Fairly libertarian, but thanks for your patronizing attitude.

Lying to get an unfair advantage over other students isn't positive sum behavior. It's zero sum behavior that leads to things like red queen races (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Queen%27s_race) and everybody having to compete for unlimited time related benefits. A competition which then eats up the supply of this resource for the people it exists for: Actually disabled people with ADHD.

Your perspective here is akin to saying that in a busy parking lot there's demand for the disabled parking spaces, so people who go out and lie about their ability so they can park in the handicap spot are performing a 'sweet hack' to get around a 'fucked up' system.

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