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Why do we work so hard?

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Re: Why do we work so hard?

#151

Post by mike_hearn »

buf wrote: post #28
tim333 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you could stick CTOing but slack off a bit as the company becomes prosperous?

That's not me.

Maybe it should be?

Don't see it as 'slacking off' though. See it as establishing a mature work/life balance.

The problem is that as a startup founder/CTO type the way you work sets the pace and culture for your entire company. And not everyone will be cool with that approach. You could miss out on experienced, senior people who just want to work normal hours and not feel like they're letting the side down.

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#152

Post by normalist »

Get Work Done Syndrome is truely a modern notion entirely absent from the laissez faire peasant farmers of yonderyear who tilled soil in return for a long glass of summer wine at the end and maybe a 20 minute long smoke of fine tobacco. Modern notions of work involve McDramas taking place in every western household where first world problems really are a truely despotic problem indeed. Master slave relationships engender this and it leads to a domestic tilling of the soil in the fields of suburbia, working for McJobs with a McPay. The kind of real work; that of some spiritual understanding, or mastering the body, or doing shadow work of the mind; 'Dumping all your ailments on a plate for those to ponder' is entirely absent in the west, where it is assumed that only those more credentialed shall offer answers, and none else. The East might have these problems just not as severe, and I worry about the encroachment of americanisation into the Eastern mindset and rich tradition and approach to existential crises.

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#153

Post by bad-joke »

cesarbs wrote: post #77
Tempest1981 wrote: post #17

Some people thrive on "solving puzzles", which is sort of what engineering is. For better or worse, there are an infinite number of puzzles to solve.

The troubling thing, at least for me, is that as I get older I realize that most puzzles one encounters as a software engineer are related to non-problems. When I was fresh out of college I would jump at any such puzzle that was presented to me and would not sleep until I had solved it. I never stopped to think about the larger picture where that puzzle was embedded in, and if it actually required solving or if a mor…

> They are usually complicated situations generated by organic and uncontrolled growth in codebase complexity that lead to horrible scenarios requiring a lot of brain power to solve.

Agreed. The deeper I get into the software field, the more it feels like choreography.

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#154

Post by eli_gottlieb »

update wrote: post #42
burgessaccount wrote: post #35

This will sound moralistic, and I don't mean it that way, but I think this relates to our general lack of clear values as a society. With religion absent in many people's lives, not much has stepped in to take up the slack and say "what really matters is being a good person" or "what really matters is wisdom" or "what really matters is family". So we're left with the messages we ARE getting, which are from a combinat…

> What our modern society needs are some new myths, legends, stories and rituals that we can all identify with in our more cosmopolitan world. Without such identification we could end up like a rudderless ship in the ocean, not knowing who we are, or where we are going. Isn’t that something that our leaders, whether in business or politics, should be concerned with? Bill Moyers on Joseph Campbell ( http://blog.iese.e…

Maybe what our modern society needs is to orient its moral compass around reality rather than myths.

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#155

Post by eli_gottlieb »

normalist wrote: post #152

Get Work Done Syndrome is truely a modern notion entirely absent from the laissez faire peasant farmers of yonderyear who tilled soil in return for a long glass of summer wine at the end and maybe a 20 minute long smoke of fine tobacco. Modern notions of work involve McDramas taking place in every western household where first world problems really are a truely despotic problem indeed. Master slave relationships enge…

>Get Work Done Syndrome is truely a modern notion entirely absent from the laissez faire peasant farmers of yonderyear who tilled soil in return for a long glass of summer wine at the end and maybe a 20 minute long smoke of fine tobacco.

You mean, tilled soil for endless hours in the spring, fall, and parts of summer, in return for a glass of summer wine at the end, a 20 minute smoke of tobacco (shorter than a lunch break), a broken back, regular starvation, and infant mortality?

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#156

Post by adrusi »

mdpopescu wrote: post #99
burgessaccount wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting thoughts. To me, it has always seemed like, if I had something figured out, that had made me happy, i would WANT to share it, if it could help others. When people find a diet or an exercise regimen that works for them, they love to talk about it. I don't think it purely comes down to boasting. I agree that people with deeper wisdom will often be less eager to boast or force their values on others. But I a…

This. I keep bugging my friends and relatives to learn programming - I make way more than the local average, and I work from home, whenever I want. I don't tell them about it because I want to brag; I do it because, to quote Miles Vorkosigan, "if I can do it, you can do it". I want them to do better, they're my friends.

The point is that they're definition of "doing better" isn't necessarily the same as yours. Maybe their idea of a good job isn't one that pays well and allows a flexible schedule, it's one that's low stress: they show up, go through the straightforward motions that they do every day, and go home. If they're interested in something intellectually stimulating, they prefer to do it on their own time, without the risk of your entire income relying on it. That's just one example.

It's natural to want your loved ones to be successful, and it's human to assume that your notion of success is universal, but it's wise to realize that it's not.

That said, it wouldn't be at all surprising if your friends would be better off if they got a job more like yours. The goals of high income and flexible schedule are quite popular.

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#157

Post by adrusi »

oldmanjay wrote: post #108
henrikschroder wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also weirded out. Who wants to work? How can you not have as a life goal to not work? It sucks for the most part! As for Marx and Keynes and others, thinking about what people will do if they're freed of labour, have you SEEN youtube? People are not lacking ideas on things to do, quite the opposite!

Telling people that living as they wish "sucks" doesn't make you right about them, it makes you a bigot.

The parent didn't say that. The comment was an expression of confoundedness ("I'm also weirded out ..."), not condemnation.

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#159

Post by crankypoet »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #155
normalist wrote: post #152

Get Work Done Syndrome is truely a modern notion entirely absent from the laissez faire peasant farmers of yonderyear who tilled soil in return for a long glass of summer wine at the end and maybe a 20 minute long smoke of fine tobacco. Modern notions of work involve McDramas taking place in every western household where first world problems really are a truely despotic problem indeed. Master slave relationships enge…

>Get Work Done Syndrome is truely a modern notion entirely absent from the laissez faire peasant farmers of yonderyear who tilled soil in return for a long glass of summer wine at the end and maybe a 20 minute long smoke of fine tobacco. You mean, tilled soil for endless hours in the spring, fall, and parts of summer, in return for a glass of summer wine at the end, a 20 minute smoke of tobacco (shorter than a lunch…

Sarcasm detection level: final boss.

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#160

Post by kyllo »

elevenfist wrote: post #98
kyllo wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because there's a bit of a feedback loop with success. If others see you as being successful or impressive (on whatever axis they care about), this attracts them to you, and having a more admirers increases your social power and influence, which gives you more opportunities and better chances of success in your future efforts. This also explains patio11's formula for career success, which is basically: 10 Make someth…

Dude, this doesn't sound like fun at all. "Social power and influence" to what end? With whom are you getting this power and influence? Are these relationships even genuine? > "this attracts them to you, and having a more admirers increases your social power and influence, which gives you more opportunities and better chances of success in your future efforts." Reminds me of those "social climber" jokes about kids in…

Perhaps my explanation didn't adequately convey the subtlety of this phenomenon.

I am not saying that successful people are all social climbers. I am just saying that successful people naturally attract the support of people who want to learn from and take part in their success, and this greater popularity in turn increases their chances for future success. It's what you might call a virtuous cycle, or a snowball effect.

If you are successful at something, it is perfectly rational to want others to know it.

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