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Never buy Epson printers

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Re: Never buy Epson printers

#151

Post by yrro »

strictfp wrote: post #81
KiDD wrote: post #41

I purchased a Xerox Phaser 6100 Color Laser Printer for $30 on Craigslist. Only problem is there are no drivers for OS X... Course it had %70 toner still and I don't look forward to having to replace the toner but at least are all separate colors and can be replaced separately!

Just register it as a standard postscript printer and it will most likely work.

I used to have one of these. It didn't understand Postscript, but after installing Splix it appeared in Cups printer model list and worked absolutely fine.

Re: Never buy Epson printers

#152

Post by kuschku »

Ralfp wrote: post #119
kuschku wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know what kind of printers you buy, but the ones I had – from HP and Canon – solved all those issues: (a) you can refill cartridges, you know that? (b) printers will ask you "foreign cartridge detected, accept? yes/no", and it works (c) refill ink goes for a few cents per liter (d) the printer works fine without some cartridges, just press "yes" when it asks you "print with just black?" (e) I print 400 pages…

Vendors actually hard-code "I'm dry and won't print anymore" kill-switch into chip on cartridge as protection against regeneration. You may refill your cart, but if kill-switch went on already, your printer will not print anyway claiming dry cartrigde. I've actually experienced this on HP printer, and quick Google search shows that I'm not alone in this: http://www.gadgetspage.com/comps-peripheral/hp-printer-consp...

Well, my printer allows me to ignore that switch if I keep the "abort print" and the "print test page" button both pressed for at least 15 sec after inserting the cartridge.

Re: Never buy Epson printers

#153

Post by Grishnakh »

innocentoldguy wrote: post #117

I hate printers in general. After all these years, manufacturers still haven't come up with a standard communication interface that would allow me to just plug in the printer and have my OS detect and use it without issue. Instead, especially with Epson printers, I have to download some awful crap-ware driver, which supports all OS versions up to the one right before the one I'm currently running.

If you use Linux (with CUPS) and a business-grade printer with Postscript or PDF support, you won't have this problem.

Re: Never buy Epson printers

#154

Post by Grishnakh »

chrischen wrote: post #98
kaonashi wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The purpose behind the engineering of the printers is to drive the sales of as many ink cartridges as possible while being as cheap as possible to produce. From this perspective, offering many additional features which turn off when the ink rent hasn't been paid makes much more sense.

Makes sense until people stop buying them for laser printers.

There's a problem with that theory: they're simply not going to stop buying them and switch to lasers.

We've had this dynamic for at least 15 years now, and people still are buying cheap-o inkjets and getting ripped off on ink cartridges. If people haven't learned after a decade and a half, they're never going to learn. Just look at the other comments on this discussion (including the blog posting that started it all): even on "hacker news", which is full of technologists rather than regular people, tons of people here have fallen for the inkjet scam. If a bunch of nerds don't know any better, than you certainly can't expect the regular public to figure it out.

Re: Never buy Epson printers

#155

Post by Grishnakh »

jokoon wrote: post #121

Well don't buy inkjet printers. Although manufacturers might pick up on that and start doing the same for laser printers...

They're not going to do it for business-class printers, because businesses aren't going to put up with it. They do it with consumer-class printers because consumers are dumb and want the cheapest thing they can find and don't print a lot, but businesses need printers that can print a lot of pages without maintenance. There's plenty of competition in the business printer market, so it'd be pretty stupid for mfgrs to pull too many shenanigans there.

Re: Never buy Epson printers

#156

Post by Grishnakh »

csomar wrote: post #83
alanfranzoni wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You tried cheap consumer printers only, I suppose. Did you try Epson Workforce Pro series? Or Canon Maxify?

Hi. I didn't complain mainly about the quality of the printer. It's cheap and it's expected to just work. But not working because a cartridge is available or "malicious" pricing of printer/cartridge is not honest business. At least, that's how I see it.

You can see it however you want, but that's how businesses work now, and they've been doing it for a century now. It's called the "razor and blades" business model, which started with Gillette. You get the main item cheap, and then the consumables are horrendously overpriced. Who cares if it's honest or not? People are so gullible they'll buy into it, and if they haven't figured it out after 100 years, they're never going to, so companies might as well use this model or else they'll be uncompetitive.

If you don't like getting ripped off this way, it's really easy to avoid: buy a business-class printer, and not some cheap-o consumer printer.

Re: Never buy Epson printers

#157

Post by titanix2 »

jschulenklopper wrote: post #53
JensRex wrote: post #31

I bought a Brother (HL-2170W) laser printer about 8 years ago, and it's still using its original cartridge. I do very little printing, but I do need it from time to time. During my last move, I accidentally tipped a book shelf on top of it. Cracked a few plastic bits, and bent some metal things inside it. I unbent the metal, and glued the plastic, and the thing still prints like it's new out of the box. I've talked m…

I'm equally happy with our Brother HL-2150N. Already using the third cartridge in its fifth (?) year, but a very basic and cheap and capable laser printer.

Same here. I bought that one for my study but finally it was used by all my family (big error to put it on the network) who print 500+ copies with the original cartbridge. Given it was almost the same price as laser printer (~100€), it happened to be a very good deal over the years.

Re: Never buy Epson printers

#158

Post by gherkin0 »

mchahn wrote: post #106
gherkin0 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a name for the scenario where market forces push new products to be objectively inferior to older ones?

Maybe planned retrogression instead of planned obsolescence?

I don't think there's usually a plan to "retrogress" on product quality, though. It just sort of works out that way.

Re: Never buy Epson printers

#159

Post by beachstartup »

icebraining wrote: post #112
beachstartup wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i have a cheap brother b/w laser at home, and use slightly more expensive hp b/w lasers at work because they're faster. at home i print things like movie and event tickets. i don't like fumbling around on my phone for tickets because sometimes there's no reception and the email or whatever isn't cached. occasionally i will have government paperwork or something to print from home also. i will also print out maps and…

For online tickets, you can usually download them. If not, I just take a screenshot (both Android and iOS have built-in support). I've traveled on Ryanair just fine using them. For maps, there are plenty with offline support: Google Maps, HERE, OsmAnd, etc. I'm not criticizing your approach, just saying that I've never felt that need. Official paperwork, on the other hand, is still a pain; our local governments seem…

uh yeah, i understand you can use a phone offline. but i'm just not going to rely on my phone to get into a place that i traveled to get to. screenshot, offline, blah blah, what if the battery dies? what if the damn thing just stops working, like it has done multiple times in my life? what if someone snatches it from me while it's out in my hand like it normally is? what if someone spills a drink on it while it's out on the table at the dinner before the show?

how do you think i know of all these terrible scenarios?

i'd rather hang on to a piece of paper, and if i lose it, then i have nobody to blame but myself. call me a luddite.

Re: Never buy Epson printers

#160

Post by icebraining »

beachstartup wrote: post #159
icebraining wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For online tickets, you can usually download them. If not, I just take a screenshot (both Android and iOS have built-in support). I've traveled on Ryanair just fine using them. For maps, there are plenty with offline support: Google Maps, HERE, OsmAnd, etc. I'm not criticizing your approach, just saying that I've never felt that need. Official paperwork, on the other hand, is still a pain; our local governments seem…

uh yeah, i understand you can use a phone offline. but i'm just not going to rely on my phone to get into a place that i traveled to get to. screenshot, offline, blah blah, what if the battery dies? what if the damn thing just stops working, like it has done multiple times in my life? what if someone snatches it from me while it's out in my hand like it normally is? what if someone spills a drink on it while it's out…

No need to get defensive, I specifically said I wasn't criticizing the paper approach, just explaining why I don't worry about bad reception.
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