Why do we work so hard? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#61

Post by rodgerd » Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 5:11 AM UTC

burgessaccount wrote: post #35

This will sound moralistic, and I don't mean it that way, but I think this relates to our general lack of clear values as a society. With religion absent in many people's lives, not much has stepped in to take up the slack and say "what really matters is being a good person" or "what really matters is wisdom" or "what really matters is family". So we're left with the messages we ARE getting, which are from a combinat…

> With religion absent in many people's lives, not much has stepped in to take up the slack

Given the obsession with hard (in fact over-) work in the English-speaking world and European north tends to be commonly treated as an artifact of the "Protestant work ethic" this seems pretty off-base.

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#62

Post by jrcii » Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 5:21 AM UTC

burgessaccount wrote: post #35

This will sound moralistic, and I don't mean it that way, but I think this relates to our general lack of clear values as a society. With religion absent in many people's lives, not much has stepped in to take up the slack and say "what really matters is being a good person" or "what really matters is wisdom" or "what really matters is family". So we're left with the messages we ARE getting, which are from a combinat…

>This will sound moralistic, and I don't mean it that way

It's truly sad that the culture of people in computing reading this forum, which reflects the nation and west as a whole, is so disconnected from God that you feel the need to disclaim the profession of morality or religion.

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#63

Post by gedy » Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 5:23 AM UTC

> "Of all things, hard work has become a virtue instead of the curse it was always advertised to be by our remote ancestors... The necessity to work is a neurotic symptom. It is a crutch. It is an attempt to make oneself feel valuable even though there is no particular need for one’s working."

— C. B. Chisholm

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#64

Post by wapapaloobop » Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 5:30 AM UTC

PG noted that getting rich is largely about running errands. In fact most of what society regards as 'work' is like this. What one needs is a hard problem to work on.

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#65

Post by ktRolster » Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 5:33 AM UTC

itsAllTrue wrote: post #5

The only reason I work hard is to surround myself with people I respect. When I find myself pushed into situations where irritating people have crept into the mix, and no one seems to be willing or able to do anything about that, I look for an exit. Boss' nephews. Obnoxious assholes who constantly talk about getting laid. Bitchy careerist ladies who constantly demand bullshit, and seem to foment panic with every brea…

Yeah, that's kind of true, I found myself seriously considering going to lawschool, sick of programming, when I finally realized that all I really wanted was to work with competent people.

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#66

Post by nether » Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 5:35 AM UTC

burgessaccount wrote: post #35

This will sound moralistic, and I don't mean it that way, but I think this relates to our general lack of clear values as a society. With religion absent in many people's lives, not much has stepped in to take up the slack and say "what really matters is being a good person" or "what really matters is wisdom" or "what really matters is family". So we're left with the messages we ARE getting, which are from a combinat…

OTOH the US has been driven by the Protestant work ethic for centuries. Many religions praise hard work and not just savoring the fruits of life, so an inverse correlation between faith and devotion to labor seems unlikely.

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#67

Post by nether » Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 5:39 AM UTC

lquist wrote: post #11

You are fettered," said Scrooge, trembling. "Tell me why?" "I wear the chain I forged in life," replied the Ghost. "I made it link by link, and yard by yard; I girded it on of my own free will, and of my own free will I wore it. -Dickens

“I think that New York [City] is the new model for the New Concentration Camp where the camp has been built by the inmates themselves where the inmates ARE the guards and they have this pride in this thing they’ve built. They’ve built their own prison and so they exist in a state of schizophrenia where they are both guards and prisoners and as a result, they no longer have – having been lobotomized – the capacity to leave the prison they’ve made or to even see it as a prison.” - My Dinner With Andre

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#68

Post by baby » Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 5:41 AM UTC

itsAllTrue wrote: post #5

The only reason I work hard is to surround myself with people I respect. When I find myself pushed into situations where irritating people have crept into the mix, and no one seems to be willing or able to do anything about that, I look for an exit. Boss' nephews. Obnoxious assholes who constantly talk about getting laid. Bitchy careerist ladies who constantly demand bullshit, and seem to foment panic with every brea…

Yeah, I really can't understand this point of view. I find most people interesting, however different they may be. I'm lucky to be surrounded by talented people but I don't see it as a new stratum of goodness, people are shitty or great on every level.

On the contrary I dislike negative people who can't see anything good in what surround them and have a cynical view of the world. I don't think I would have liked working with you.

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#69

Post by BadassFractal » Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 5:43 AM UTC

buf wrote: post #7

I moved to SF in 2008 as a poor college grad. Since then, I've spent all of my time in startups. It's an unhealthy addiction and it's going to kill me. I was the third engineer at Eventbrite, and I spent years working many extra hours. After 4 years, it felt like I worked 10 years. I quit and moved to Europe to try to leave the startup scene, but a month later, I found myself the CTO of a startup in London. The addic…

Similar story here, been doing the crazy startup founder hours for half a decade now, haven't really lived much outside of the office in that time. Feeling also trapped: if I drop out, then I'm somewhat giving up on all of the people who over the years I had to convince to join me in a vision that I'm becoming tired of. It'd very likely lead to the collapse of a source of fulfillment, purpose and income for many people, but at the same time I suppose I have only one life and don't have to be a martyr.

What's something someone with a strong entrepreneurial, technical and managerial background (and very good pedigree) can do for maybe 20 hours a week and still pay the bills? I would love to drop out of the race for a few years and smell the roses.

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#70

Post by BadassFractal » Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 5:43 AM UTC

xirdstl wrote: post #47

gyardley wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it could happen - there's nothing inherent that keeps you from downshifting and enjoying your life more. Even if you're truly addicted to work, addictions can be beaten. I have to admit I find articles like this completely perplexing. As soon as I achieved a little bit of professional success, I dropped full-time work like a hot rock, and I don't miss it at all.

What do you do now? Part time contracting? I'm at a place where I don't really need to work full time either, but I haven't figured out a plan for getting out of it.

Would also love to hear the answer to this.