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Why do we work so hard?

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Re: Why do we work so hard?

#51

Post by burgessaccount »

nostrademons wrote: post #45
burgessaccount wrote: post #35

This will sound moralistic, and I don't mean it that way, but I think this relates to our general lack of clear values as a society. With religion absent in many people's lives, not much has stepped in to take up the slack and say "what really matters is being a good person" or "what really matters is wisdom" or "what really matters is family". So we're left with the messages we ARE getting, which are from a combinat…

Nah, it's that folks who get their values from other folks are the only ones who bother to tell other folks how well they're doing at achieving their externally-gifted values. If your goal is to make a lot of money but you decided that was just your goal, why bother to tell anyone you've achieved it? (Indeed, it can be very counterproductive to tell other people.) If your goal is to be a good husband & father, then w…

Interesting thoughts. To me, it has always seemed like, if I had something figured out, that had made me happy, i would WANT to share it, if it could help others. When people find a diet or an exercise regimen that works for them, they love to talk about it. I don't think it purely comes down to boasting. I agree that people with deeper wisdom will often be less eager to boast or force their values on others. But I also think there are some people who, in the spirit of helpfulness, are sharing positive values - they just don't have the megaphone that movies, ads, and pundits have.

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#52

Post by jacquesm »

madengr wrote: post #34
jjoonathan wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And expensive equipment :-) You said "state of the art," too, so I fully expect that the price is well into "call us" territory. Speaking of which, I need to go enter my name into today's Agilent drawing...

Spherical near field antenna scanner, mm wave equipment, Keysight 50 GHz PNA with pulsed X-parameters, Keysight UXA spectrum analyzer, load pull tuners, etc; all good stuff.

If you experience a burglary in the next couple of days it wasn't me.

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#54

Post by justinjlynn »

madengr wrote: post #34
jjoonathan wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And expensive equipment :-) You said "state of the art," too, so I fully expect that the price is well into "call us" territory. Speaking of which, I need to go enter my name into today's Agilent drawing...

Spherical near field antenna scanner, mm wave equipment, Keysight 50 GHz PNA with pulsed X-parameters, Keysight UXA spectrum analyzer, load pull tuners, etc; all good stuff.

You have just described what is easily fifty thousand USD worth of equipment.

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#56

Post by zendotech »

justinjlynn wrote: post #54
madengr wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spherical near field antenna scanner, mm wave equipment, Keysight 50 GHz PNA with pulsed X-parameters, Keysight UXA spectrum analyzer, load pull tuners, etc; all good stuff.

You have just described what is easily fifty thousand USD worth of equipment.

I think you mean 500K$ usd, used.

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#57

Post by nostrademons »

burgessaccount wrote: post #51
nostrademons wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, it's that folks who get their values from other folks are the only ones who bother to tell other folks how well they're doing at achieving their externally-gifted values. If your goal is to make a lot of money but you decided that was just your goal, why bother to tell anyone you've achieved it? (Indeed, it can be very counterproductive to tell other people.) If your goal is to be a good husband & father, then w…

Interesting thoughts. To me, it has always seemed like, if I had something figured out, that had made me happy, i would WANT to share it, if it could help others. When people find a diet or an exercise regimen that works for them, they love to talk about it. I don't think it purely comes down to boasting. I agree that people with deeper wisdom will often be less eager to boast or force their values on others. But I a…

That works great until you realize that other people often have different value systems. What you're super proud of may be deeply offensive to another person. Just think about how saying "I'm a Googler, and proud of the work I do" might go over for a CS student vs. how it goes ever for the journalist who's struggling to make a living because Google has commoditized the news business.

In practice, what usually happens is people end up self-organizing into small communities of like-minded people. Within the community, values are very homogenous, and people can feel safe that they have a good pulse on what will be offensive vs. what won't be. But when one community meets another, they're often shocked at how barbaric the rest of humanity can be. (Just look at the Trump vs. Sanders melee that played out in Chicago last night.)

And the more differentiated and more nuanced someone's views are, the less they fit into any one community. There are plenty of people whose personal relationships are entirely personal because they're at the point where no one group is going to give them that feeling of belonging.

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#58

Post by amelius »

update wrote: post #42
burgessaccount wrote: post #35

This will sound moralistic, and I don't mean it that way, but I think this relates to our general lack of clear values as a society. With religion absent in many people's lives, not much has stepped in to take up the slack and say "what really matters is being a good person" or "what really matters is wisdom" or "what really matters is family". So we're left with the messages we ARE getting, which are from a combinat…

> What our modern society needs are some new myths, legends, stories and rituals that we can all identify with in our more cosmopolitan world. Without such identification we could end up like a rudderless ship in the ocean, not knowing who we are, or where we are going. Isn’t that something that our leaders, whether in business or politics, should be concerned with? Bill Moyers on Joseph Campbell ( http://blog.iese.e…

The problem is that the myths that sell aren't the ones we should identify with.

Re: Why do we work so hard?

#59

Post by henrikschroder »

ambicapter wrote: post #44
iopq wrote: post #3

I wish I wanted to work a lot. I just kind of force myself to do it, even if it's something I'm excited about.

Same. Then again, I'm not where I want to be. Looking at all the workaholics in this thread I'm simultaneously intrigued and weirded out.

I'm also weirded out. Who wants to work? How can you not have as a life goal to not work? It sucks for the most part!

As for Marx and Keynes and others, thinking about what people will do if they're freed of labour, have you SEEN youtube? People are not lacking ideas on things to do, quite the opposite!

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