Why Dopamine Makes People More Impulsive • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Dopamine Makes People More Impulsive

#21

Post by utefan001 » Sat, Mar 12, 2016, 9:29 PM UTC

Just got diagnosed with ADHD at 42 years old. Strattera has been a HUGE help.

Of course there are varying degrees of ADHD. But if some of these descriptions fit you. You might have ADHD.

"Everyone encounters some task he doesn't particularly enjoy, but most people are able to find a way to complete the boring aspects of their job, says de Marneffe. People with ADHD, however, have a hard time doing that."

"If you (sometimes) fly off the handle in a fit of anger or frustration one moment but are completely over it in the next, it might be a sign of ADHD."

-you have a hard time sitting for multiple hours

http://www.health.com/health/gallery/0,,20490145,00.html --15 Signs You May Have Adult ADHD--

Re: Why Dopamine Makes People More Impulsive

#22

Post by Amezarak » Sat, Mar 12, 2016, 10:11 PM UTC

chrischen wrote: post #13

y0y wrote: post #8

This is really fascinating to me. As someone with adhd, my psychiatrist has explained it to me in terms of Dopamine. In his words, stimulant medications help to treat symptoms of adhd, in part, by creating dopamine when we either lack it or have a weakened response to it. This flood of dopamine keeps us from being impulsive, in his explanation. In other words, I am more impulsive without stimulants and the explanatio…

From what I understand your description is also experimentally validated. People on ADHD medication become like zombies and no longer seek short term excitements that cause distractions. Perhaps there's something else in ADHD people wiring that cause a different response, but even normal college students took ADHD medication to help focus.

Precisely. It's not that stimulants help people with ADHD focus. They help everyone focus, regardless of whether they have ADHD. [1]

> Attention-deficit drugs increase concentration in the short term, which is why they work so well for college students cramming for exams.

> Versions of these drugs had been given to World War II radar operators to help them stay awake and focus on boring, repetitive tasks.

> And when we reviewed the literature on attention-deficit drugs again in 1990 we found that all children, whether they had attention problems or not, responded to stimulant drugs the same way.

I've always been baffled how I didn't see this for myself years ago - after all, that's exactly what caffeine does for millions of people.

Worse, though, people with ADHD are prescribed stimulants for long-term use, and even after the medicine ceases to be effective - because your body adapts to it over time - you can't just stop taking it, because withdrawal sucks.

[1] http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/29/opinion/sunday/childrens-a...

Re: Why Dopamine Makes People More Impulsive

#23

Post by Reedx » Sat, Mar 12, 2016, 10:14 PM UTC

utefan001 wrote: post #21

Just got diagnosed with ADHD at 42 years old. Strattera has been a HUGE help. Of course there are varying degrees of ADHD. But if some of these descriptions fit you. You might have ADHD. "Everyone encounters some task he doesn't particularly enjoy, but most people are able to find a way to complete the boring aspects of their job, says de Marneffe. People with ADHD, however, have a hard time doing that." "If you (som…

Doesn't everyone have a hard time completing boring jobs and sitting for hours?

Re: Why Dopamine Makes People More Impulsive

#24

Post by utefan001 » Sat, Mar 12, 2016, 10:35 PM UTC

Reedx wrote: post #23

utefan001 wrote: post #21

Just got diagnosed with ADHD at 42 years old. Strattera has been a HUGE help. Of course there are varying degrees of ADHD. But if some of these descriptions fit you. You might have ADHD. "Everyone encounters some task he doesn't particularly enjoy, but most people are able to find a way to complete the boring aspects of their job, says de Marneffe. People with ADHD, however, have a hard time doing that." "If you (som…

Doesn't everyone have a hard time completing boring jobs and sitting for hours?

My Dad didn't.

As for me, for some tasks, such as writing documentation for something I knew nobody would ever read, my brain would refuse to focus. I would look for more important things to do and never get a page of documentation done.

Re: Why Dopamine Makes People More Impulsive

#25

Post by miguelrochefort » Sat, Mar 12, 2016, 10:48 PM UTC

utefan001 wrote: post #24

Reedx wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't everyone have a hard time completing boring jobs and sitting for hours?

My Dad didn't. As for me, for some tasks, such as writing documentation for something I knew nobody would ever read, my brain would refuse to focus. I would look for more important things to do and never get a page of documentation done.

How is writing documentation that nobody will ever read a thing anyone should be motivated for?

Do people without ADHD agree to do useless things because they're told to?

Re: Why Dopamine Makes People More Impulsive

#26

Post by moments » Sat, Mar 12, 2016, 11:30 PM UTC

marxidad wrote: post #20

carbocation wrote: post #4

I often wonder why we refer to the neurotransmitters as making people depressed/impulsive/etc rather than referring to specific groups of neurons that presumably mediate those experiences or behaviors.

Neuronal pathways are based on a specific neurotransmitters. Dopamine usually means limbic system and seratonin usually means the cortex.

The parent here makes a good point, and your comment appears to represent a common misconception about neurotransmitters. Both dopamine and serotonin can do different things depending on the system and the receptors that are actively present. Serotonin, for example, is mostly in your gut, not cortex! From wikipedia:

"Approximately 90% of the human body's total serotonin is located in the enterochromaffin cells in the GI tract, where it is used to regulate intestinal movements."

Dopamine is more specific, playing an important role in the limbic system, but is not limited to it. Its functions are not completely understood, and again depend on the receptor.

Better to think of the function of neurotransmitters as dependent on both system AND receptor. The function of neurotransmitters, like dopamine, can be simplified, but others, like glutamate, are extremely complicated.

Re: Why Dopamine Makes People More Impulsive

#27

Post by KMag » Sat, Mar 12, 2016, 11:33 PM UTC

chrischen wrote: post #13

y0y wrote: post #8

This is really fascinating to me. As someone with adhd, my psychiatrist has explained it to me in terms of Dopamine. In his words, stimulant medications help to treat symptoms of adhd, in part, by creating dopamine when we either lack it or have a weakened response to it. This flood of dopamine keeps us from being impulsive, in his explanation. In other words, I am more impulsive without stimulants and the explanatio…

From what I understand your description is also experimentally validated. People on ADHD medication become like zombies and no longer seek short term excitements that cause distractions. Perhaps there's something else in ADHD people wiring that cause a different response, but even normal college students took ADHD medication to help focus.

It's probably best to not think in terms of a binary ADHD diagnosis, but rather on an attention spectrum.

Students low on the attention spectrum (but either just above ADHD diagnosis or without the resources to get diagnosed) are probably more likely to self-medicate.

So, the fact that some students who self-select for self-medication show improvements isn't necessarily evidence that someone in the middle or upper end of the attention spectrum will see improvements. However, it does suggest a need for research into the effects on randomly selected non-ADHD-diagnosed people.

Re: Why Dopamine Makes People More Impulsive

#28

Post by KMag » Sat, Mar 12, 2016, 11:36 PM UTC

Amezarak wrote: post #22

chrischen wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understand your description is also experimentally validated. People on ADHD medication become like zombies and no longer seek short term excitements that cause distractions. Perhaps there's something else in ADHD people wiring that cause a different response, but even normal college students took ADHD medication to help focus.

Precisely. It's not that stimulants help people with ADHD focus. They help everyone focus, regardless of whether they have ADHD. [1] > Attention-deficit drugs increase concentration in the short term, which is why they work so well for college students cramming for exams. > Versions of these drugs had been given to World War II radar operators to help them stay awake and focus on boring, repetitive tasks. > And when…

I don't smoke, but I do use nicotine gum from time to time to help focus. I find it faster acting and more effective than caffeine, with a shorter half-life.

I should probably talk to my doctor to see if I have ADHD, instead of occasionally self-medicating.

Re: Why Dopamine Makes People More Impulsive

#29

Post by kneel » Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 12:42 AM UTC

carbocation wrote: post #4

I often wonder why we refer to the neurotransmitters as making people depressed/impulsive/etc rather than referring to specific groups of neurons that presumably mediate those experiences or behaviors.

Psychiatry has convinced a lot of people that mental disorders are often caused by 'chemical imbalances' whatever that means.

The neural structure of the brain is very complex and involves dozens of neuronal molecules acting on a wide variety of neurons.

It's incredible that we have psychiatrists prescribing all sorts of inhibitors/activators to alleviate various disorders. A lot of these drugs have unknown mechanisms. Even when the mechanism is understood no one understands how these drugs are working on the whole brain.

Re: Why Dopamine Makes People More Impulsive

#30

Post by trhway » Sun, Mar 13, 2016, 1:07 AM UTC

y0y wrote: post #8

This is really fascinating to me. As someone with adhd, my psychiatrist has explained it to me in terms of Dopamine. In his words, stimulant medications help to treat symptoms of adhd, in part, by creating dopamine when we either lack it or have a weakened response to it. This flood of dopamine keeps us from being impulsive, in his explanation. In other words, I am more impulsive without stimulants and the explanatio…

There is also genetic difference in how fast system clears/consumes the dopamine out - faster means those people are better under stress while worse at prolong concentration, slower means stupor under stress while better in "slow/deep" thinking like math, etc ( obviously it is crude smartphone typed version of a recently mentioned on HN article:)