Why Dopamine Makes People More Impulsive • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Dopamine Makes People More Impulsive

#11

Post by meowface » Sat, Mar 12, 2016, 7:42 PM UTC

caycep wrote: post #7

the weird part - impulse control disorders is a well described side effect of the "synthetic" and selective dopamine agonists (pramipexole, ropinirole, rotigotine) developed in the 80's and 90's for PD. It doesn't happen to everyone but seems to affect patients who have some sort of pre-existing obsession or compulsion that was more or less under control prior to the medicine. The odd part is that levodopa (basically…

I'm confused by what you're trying to say. The article repeatedly stated that levodopa has been observed to create higher impulsivity.

I imagine any pure dopamine agonist can be prone to creating an impulse disorder if you take a sufficiently high dose.

Re: Why Dopamine Makes People More Impulsive

#12

Post by meowface » Sat, Mar 12, 2016, 7:44 PM UTC

_98fj wrote: post #10

y0y wrote: post #8

This is really fascinating to me. As someone with adhd, my psychiatrist has explained it to me in terms of Dopamine. In his words, stimulant medications help to treat symptoms of adhd, in part, by creating dopamine when we either lack it or have a weakened response to it. This flood of dopamine keeps us from being impulsive, in his explanation. In other words, I am more impulsive without stimulants and the explanatio…

Dopamine also excites a _downregulating_ part of your brain, that's why it focusses you. See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10368605

That's a major overgeneralization. For one, many people with ADHD who take Adderall for years eventually have to stop taking the drug because their dopamine receptors have downregulated so much and the medication no longer works.

Re: Why Dopamine Makes People More Impulsive

#13

Post by chrischen » Sat, Mar 12, 2016, 7:45 PM UTC

y0y wrote: post #8

This is really fascinating to me. As someone with adhd, my psychiatrist has explained it to me in terms of Dopamine. In his words, stimulant medications help to treat symptoms of adhd, in part, by creating dopamine when we either lack it or have a weakened response to it. This flood of dopamine keeps us from being impulsive, in his explanation. In other words, I am more impulsive without stimulants and the explanatio…

From what I understand your description is also experimentally validated. People on ADHD medication become like zombies and no longer seek short term excitements that cause distractions.

Perhaps there's something else in ADHD people wiring that cause a different response, but even normal college students took ADHD medication to help focus.

Re: Why Dopamine Makes People More Impulsive

#14

Post by chrischen » Sat, Mar 12, 2016, 7:47 PM UTC

meowface wrote: post #9

y0y wrote: post #8

This is really fascinating to me. As someone with adhd, my psychiatrist has explained it to me in terms of Dopamine. In his words, stimulant medications help to treat symptoms of adhd, in part, by creating dopamine when we either lack it or have a weakened response to it. This flood of dopamine keeps us from being impulsive, in his explanation. In other words, I am more impulsive without stimulants and the explanatio…

Yes, it is far more complicated than you're describing. I'm going to assume you're taking Adderall (an amphetamine salt mixture), but this also applies to methylphenidate. First: Stimulant drugs typically release or inhibit reuptake of both dopamine and norepinephrine. Dopamine actually converts into norepinephrine in the brain, complicating things further. L-DOPA, which is described in this article, is not a stimula…

Adderral provides symptom relief almost immediately.

Re: Why Dopamine Makes People More Impulsive

#15

Post by cel1ne » Sat, Mar 12, 2016, 7:50 PM UTC

meowface wrote: post #12

_98fj wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dopamine also excites a _downregulating_ part of your brain, that's why it focusses you. See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10368605

That's a major overgeneralization. For one, many people with ADHD who take Adderall for years eventually have to stop taking the drug because their dopamine receptors have downregulated so much and the medication no longer works.

I'm not talking about downregulating receptor response, but entire areas of the brain like the insula and parts of the frontostriatal circuit.

Re: Why Dopamine Makes People More Impulsive

#16

Post by meowface » Sat, Mar 12, 2016, 8:00 PM UTC

chrischen wrote: post #14

meowface wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is far more complicated than you're describing. I'm going to assume you're taking Adderall (an amphetamine salt mixture), but this also applies to methylphenidate. First: Stimulant drugs typically release or inhibit reuptake of both dopamine and norepinephrine. Dopamine actually converts into norepinephrine in the brain, complicating things further. L-DOPA, which is described in this article, is not a stimula…

Adderral provides symptom relief almost immediately.

Sure. But it probably doesn't give relief for more than 12 or so hours, right?

When I said "not get a lot of symptom relief", I meant regarding general life functioning, not short-term response. Obviously Adderall will provide quick relief for an ADHD sufferer; it just won't help them in the long-term unless they take it regularly.

Re: Why Dopamine Makes People More Impulsive

#17

Post by azernik » Sat, Mar 12, 2016, 8:07 PM UTC

carbocation wrote: post #4

I often wonder why we refer to the neurotransmitters as making people depressed/impulsive/etc rather than referring to specific groups of neurons that presumably mediate those experiences or behaviors.

Because the neurotransmitters are all we know enough to experiment with so far.

Like the joke about the drunk looking for his keys only right next to the door - "because that's where the light is".

Re: Why Dopamine Makes People More Impulsive

#18

Post by meowface » Sat, Mar 12, 2016, 8:39 PM UTC

cel1ne wrote: post #15

meowface wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a major overgeneralization. For one, many people with ADHD who take Adderall for years eventually have to stop taking the drug because their dopamine receptors have downregulated so much and the medication no longer works.

I'm not talking about downregulating receptor response, but entire areas of the brain like the insula and parts of the frontostriatal circuit.

Ah, I see. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Based on the literature, it seems like a probable explanation.

Re: Why Dopamine Makes People More Impulsive

#19

Post by runesoerensen » Sat, Mar 12, 2016, 9:21 PM UTC

meowface wrote: post #16

chrischen wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adderral provides symptom relief almost immediately.

Sure. But it probably doesn't give relief for more than 12 or so hours, right? When I said "not get a lot of symptom relief", I meant regarding general life functioning, not short-term response. Obviously Adderall will provide quick relief for an ADHD sufferer; it just won't help them in the long-term unless they take it regularly.

> it just won't help them in the long-term unless they take it regularly.

Which is why many ADHD sufferers take stimulant medication regularly. However, that doesn't mean the medication doesn't provide relief that improve general life functioning.

Similarly, chronic pain may be treated with morphine, which provides short-term pain relief and improves general life functioning when taken regularly.

> Stimulant medication is also more about trying to maintain steady levels of dopamine in the brain at all times

I don't think this is accurate. Rather, it depends on the attention and performance requirements of the sufferer. Children may only need symptom relief while in school, whereas adults may need relief through most of their waking hours.

It seems unlikely that someone would really need relief from ADHD symptoms while sleeping.

Re: Why Dopamine Makes People More Impulsive

#20

Post by marxidad » Sat, Mar 12, 2016, 9:24 PM UTC

carbocation wrote: post #4

I often wonder why we refer to the neurotransmitters as making people depressed/impulsive/etc rather than referring to specific groups of neurons that presumably mediate those experiences or behaviors.

Neuronal pathways are based on a specific neurotransmitters. Dopamine usually means limbic system and seratonin usually means the cortex.