Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol 3-0 [video]

youtube.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 428 posts

Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol 3-0 [video]

#91

Post by radicalbyte »

awwducks wrote: post #67
Radim wrote: post #57

In a recent interview [1], Hassabis (DeepMind founder) said they'd try training AlphaGo from scratch next, so it learns from first principles. Without the bootstrapping step of "learn from a database of human games", which introduce human prejudice. As a Go player, I'm really excited to see what kind of play will come from that! [1] http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/10/11192774/demis-hassabis-in...

That would be amazing if it could achieve the same levels (or higher) without the bootstrapping. The niggling thought in my mind was that AlphaGo's strength is built on human strength.

Human strength is also "built on human strength" so I don't see the problem? :)

Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol 3-0 [video]

#92

Post by taneq »

Eliezer wrote: post #79

My (long) commentary here: https://www.facebook.com/yudkowsky/posts/10154018209759228 Sample: At this point it seems likely that Sedol is actually far outclassed by a superhuman player. The suspicion is that since AlphaGo plays purely for probability of long-term victory rather than playing for points, the fight against Sedol generates boards that can falsely appear to a human to be balanced even as Sedol's probabili…

This is reminding me more and more of the central theme of the book Echopraxia, which was that when dealing with superhuman intelligences, you are by definition not smart enough to even know whether you're winning.

Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol 3-0 [video]

#93

Post by Cyph0n »

drjesusphd wrote: post #87
esturk wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give credit where credit is due. This is DeepMind's research, and Google acquired them in 2014. Of course, Google gave them a lot of resources to train AlphaGo. But let's not bury the subsidiary, or I guess they would both be subs to Alphabet now making the two even less related.

If they wanted ultimate credit, they shouldn't have sold. They made a judgment call and part of that is Google gets a share of the congratulations.

Yes, but the team is Google DeepMind, not "Google research team".

Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol 3-0 [video]

#94

Post by studentrob »

Eliezer wrote: post #79

My (long) commentary here: https://www.facebook.com/yudkowsky/posts/10154018209759228 Sample: At this point it seems likely that Sedol is actually far outclassed by a superhuman player. The suspicion is that since AlphaGo plays purely for probability of long-term victory rather than playing for points, the fight against Sedol generates boards that can falsely appear to a human to be balanced even as Sedol's probabili…

I wonder if he could identify those long-term-thinking moves by playing a version of AlphaGo on a smaller board, then gradually increasing the size of the board over successive games once he is able to consistently win or tie at a given board size.

I also wonder if when Alpha Go plays itself, does it always win when it is black or white, does it always tie, or is it a mix?

So much to learn from this.

Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol 3-0 [video]

#95

Post by 21 »

seanwilson wrote: post #71
jonbaer wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hassabis discusses some StarCraft here ... http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/10/11192774/demis-hassabis-in... ... good interview.

I read that too. It's interesting StarCraft is suggested instead of any classic board games. It sounds like Go is the pinnacle of board games then. Would StarCraft be the last game AI has to beat?

No, after StarCraft they suggested 3D games (eg: Call of Duty, ...). Mind you, this is playing based on the pixels, not based on direct access to the game structures as bots do today.

The from playing Call of Duty to controling a robot with a gun in the real world it's a small step :)

Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol 3-0 [video]

#96

Post by jonbaer »

seanwilson wrote: post #71
jonbaer wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hassabis discusses some StarCraft here ... http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/10/11192774/demis-hassabis-in... ... good interview.

I read that too. It's interesting StarCraft is suggested instead of any classic board games. It sounds like Go is the pinnacle of board games then. Would StarCraft be the last game AI has to beat?

In RTS world I think AlphaGo == WOPR (War Operation Plan Response) - can only guess who would want to license that box ;-)

Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol 3-0 [video]

#97

Post by School-Cotton »

21 wrote: post #58
badminton1 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a tool if you can't control it. Politicians fool countries delivering empty promises about better health, education and security. A supraintelligent AI could promise making humans rich, healthy and powerful, to then break its promise and dominate the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_box

Do you feel guilty when you break your promise against your cat? Do you even think for a nanosecond if it's ethical to lie to it? Of course, a cat is not conscious. But compared to an AI, we might also be considered pretty low consciousness beings, or at least beings in front of which you don't justify yourself.

> Of course, a cat is not conscious.

How do you know?

Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol 3-0 [video]

#99

Post by kurlberg »

Radim wrote: post #57

In a recent interview [1], Hassabis (DeepMind founder) said they'd try training AlphaGo from scratch next, so it learns from first principles. Without the bootstrapping step of "learn from a database of human games", which introduce human prejudice. As a Go player, I'm really excited to see what kind of play will come from that! [1] http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/10/11192774/demis-hassabis-in...

A case of life imitating AI koans:

Uncarved block

In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6. "What are you doing?", asked Minsky. "I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-tac-toe", Sussman replied. "Why is the net wired randomly?", asked Minsky. "I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play", Sussman said. Minsky then shut his eyes. "Why do you close your eyes?" Sussman asked his teacher. "So that the room will be empty." At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

(It seems based on a true story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_koan )

Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol 3-0 [video]

#100

Post by nkurz »

Radim wrote: post #82
flyingbutter wrote: post #50

The Chinese 9 Dan player Ke Jie basically said the game is lost after around 40 mins or so. He still thinks that he has a 60% chance of winning against AlphaGo (down from 100% on day one). But I doubt Google will bother to go to China and challenge him.

Challenging Ke Jie is way too small a goal for DeepMind at this point. I wonder if even the idea from the AGA stream today, to get all the best pros in the world together and challenge AlphaGo as a team, is enough. Perhaps releasing the core AlphaGo as open source (to the extent it's not dependent on internal Google machinery), or at least publishing its trained model, may be the next step. Let people "challenge them…

I wonder if even the idea from the AGA stream today, to get all the best pros in the world together and challenge AlphaGo as a team, is enough.

Has this been tried? That is, have Players 2-9 (or some subset) ever competed as a group against a dominant Player 1? Unless it's been tested, I wouldn't take it for granted that a group would beat an individual.

Post reply on HN