They are sentient. It is slavery.
Prove this.
Hell, don't worry about proving it. Just define "sentient" in a objective, empirically measurable way.
Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity
41–50 of 146 posts
Re: Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity
#42I agree that killer whale's shouldn't be kept in captivity, but than on the other hand, I also love me some bacon. Pigs are also sentient creatures with high intelligence yet we see them as a food source, and thus don't really care about their conditions in captivity.
But we should.
Future generations will judge us very poorly on this.
Re: Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity
#43They are sentient. It is slavery.
On the one hand, I wish I lived in an era of human history when technology had improved to the point where we could explore or communicate with distant planets and meet other sentient life forms. On the other hand, our treatment of lifeforms of varying difference to ourselves already on our planet is deeply troubling. The thought of that culture spreading across the galaxy like a disease is horrifying. I have a pet d…
Demetri Martin: It seems like there's a fine line between having a pet and having a hostage from a different species. You go to somebody's house, they're like, "Close the door. He'll get out. CLOSE THE DOOR! HE'LL GET OUT!" Okay. What kind of relationship do you have with this dog, exactly?
Re: Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity
#44> In line with this, several decades of observation show that orcas are not naturally violent towards humans. There are no recorded cases of a wild orca killing a human. In a recent BBC Attenborough documentary (I think Frozen Planet) there was a sequence where they showed teams of killer whales swiftly swimming just under the surface to create a wave in an attempt to knock a seal off an ice flow so that they could e…
I have personally swum with wild Orcas. They seemed to asses me then discount me as food fairly quickly.
Re: Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity
#45I agree that killer whale's shouldn't be kept in captivity, but than on the other hand, I also love me some bacon. Pigs are also sentient creatures with high intelligence yet we see them as a food source, and thus don't really care about their conditions in captivity.
Pigs are meant to be kept as farm animals. They were selectively domesticated. Same with chickens, sheep, cows etc. Problem with Orcas is that they are not use to live in captivity. They were just caught in the sea and forced to do tricks. Its same with large wild cats - they have been not selectively chosen over decades to join the human society.
Nothing is "meant" to be kept as a farm animal. The choices we've made about which animals we keep as livestock, which we keep as pets, and which we keep in zoos (or, per TFA, only slightly oversized swimming pools) are in absolutely no way derived from some sort of teleological mandate.
Re: Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity
#46They are sentient. It is slavery.
At what point does sentience end? Whales? Rats? Birds? Fish? Insects? Plants? Bacteria? Because something has a higher order nervous system does that mean we have to assign it equal rights? How high an order of system would be required to have equal rights? Why does it really matter how something else feels other than members of our own species? For the record I generally agree with not keeping killer whales in capti…
Our relationship with wild/animals can be better understood by giving more sympathetic ear to tribal people around the earth. I personally find the western liberal logic to far more rely on mutual-exclusion principle than required.
I come from India where we literally and figuratively worship plethora to animal gods. We made our bullocks work like slaves in our field and yet for us they were members of family. Humans in the house-hold did not start their food until the Animals were served their food first. Same for temple elephants, bullfight bulls, snakes etc. it was a relationship that both used Animals and yet respected them for their "life".
In last decade or so a lot of western funded NGOs are on prowl painting all Hindu traditions as "exploitative towards animals" demanding ban on almost everything from bull-fights to temple elephants.
Solutions sometimes exist in plain sight but we refuse to look.
Re: Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
Same with most sharks. They have to bite you to know what you are, most shark attacks are quick strikes and then they let the victim go.
Really? Wow, a lot to learn in this thread! Seems like we might not be very palatable for many creatures (or are just too bizarre for them to eat).
We just don't taste like the food they usually eat. Someone who's never had kimchi, or any spicy food, might react similarly on the first bite.
Re: Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity
#48I agree that killer whale's shouldn't be kept in captivity, but than on the other hand, I also love me some bacon. Pigs are also sentient creatures with high intelligence yet we see them as a food source, and thus don't really care about their conditions in captivity.
Pigs are meant to be kept as farm animals. They were selectively domesticated. Same with chickens, sheep, cows etc. Problem with Orcas is that they are not use to live in captivity. They were just caught in the sea and forced to do tricks. Its same with large wild cats - they have been not selectively chosen over decades to join the human society.
While I agree with you I feel like that's a technical problem - if you want to argue from that position it should be a question of "how do we keep them in captivity efficiently/safely" both for them and humans rather than "should we keep them" and phrasing it as a moral question.
Also the article's point and general theme seems kind of weak :
>In line with this, several decades of observation show that orcas are not naturally violent towards humans. There are no recorded cases of a wild orca killing a human.
This implies (and the surrounding text) - that this behavior is a result of captivity changing their behavior.
How often do orcas and humans meet in a setting that would allow them to harm a human in a similar way they would - say a penguin ? Would it be plausible that they would do a similar thing in the wild in a similar setting given enough opportunities (since trainers interact with them constantly) ?
Re: Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity
#49> In line with this, several decades of observation show that orcas are not naturally violent towards humans. There are no recorded cases of a wild orca killing a human. In a recent BBC Attenborough documentary (I think Frozen Planet) there was a sequence where they showed teams of killer whales swiftly swimming just under the surface to create a wave in an attempt to knock a seal off an ice flow so that they could e…
Attacks on humans by Orcas happens. Its that they do not eat humans, once they realize its us, they let go and swim away. They need to taste us first, especially if none of the members of group haven't tasted or interacted with humans before.
It's not just that they don't eat us, it's also that they haven't killed us for other reasons.
For example, a human happening to stray close to a young orca might be confused as a threat to it, which could trigger an attack by a parent. Yet, despite there being lots of orcas in the ocean, no violent altercation between a wild orca and a human has led to a human death.
That this hasn't happened even once is remarkable, especially given the massive size and strength of orca. Other large mammals often kill humans, and not just as food, for example, hippos.
I don't think we know exactly why orcas have never killed humans, but I would guess their intelligence has something to do with it.
Re: Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity
#50My wife keeps hitting me when I (intentionally, to mess with her) call these creatures 'killer whales'. The name doesn't help, really. The subtitle is 'Keeping orcas in aquariums deprives them of crucial aspects of their lives, and in some cases it can even prove dangerous to humans'. BBC seems to know what these creatures are called, but prefers to use 'killer whales' in the title. Why? That's messed up, both in gen…
> BBC seems to know what these creatures are called
Yes, they're called both "orcas" and "killer whales", with the latter being more common.
And on that note, do people really parse "killer whales" as "whales that kill (people?)". I'm pretty sure I don't; my brain treats the phrase as an opaque semantic unit meaning "those giant, black and white dolphins".