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Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity

bbc.com

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Re: Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity

#21

Post by alanwatts »

dpflan wrote: post #8
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the one hand, I wish I lived in an era of human history when technology had improved to the point where we could explore or communicate with distant planets and meet other sentient life forms. On the other hand, our treatment of lifeforms of varying difference to ourselves already on our planet is deeply troubling. The thought of that culture spreading across the galaxy like a disease is horrifying. I have a pet d…

Here is an article about a Beluga whale that began to mimic human speech: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/story-one-whale... Also, In the "Animal Minds" episode, Radiolab recounts a story of divers saving a net-entangled whale, and the whale in turn "thanks" each diver. It's a good show, and the examples included are thought-provoking. If you found this story intriguing, I recommend giving this Radiolab…

What are your thoughts on Jon C. Lilly's work?

Re: Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity

#22

Post by funkyy »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #16

> In line with this, several decades of observation show that orcas are not naturally violent towards humans. There are no recorded cases of a wild orca killing a human. In a recent BBC Attenborough documentary (I think Frozen Planet) there was a sequence where they showed teams of killer whales swiftly swimming just under the surface to create a wave in an attempt to knock a seal off an ice flow so that they could e…

Attacks on humans by Orcas happens. Its that they do not eat humans, once they realize its us, they let go and swim away. They need to taste us first, especially if none of the members of group haven't tasted or interacted with humans before.

Re: Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity

#23

Post by DamnYuppie »

staticautomatic wrote: post #12
jqm wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what point does sentience end? Whales? Rats? Birds? Fish? Insects? Plants? Bacteria? Because something has a higher order nervous system does that mean we have to assign it equal rights? How high an order of system would be required to have equal rights? Why does it really matter how something else feels other than members of our own species? For the record I generally agree with not keeping killer whales in capti…

I think it was the political philosopher Robert Nozick who posed a related question: If it's acceptable for humans to eat "lower" life forms, then would it be acceptable for a much more intelligent or sentient alien race to eat humans?

Depends on how tasty we are to them and or if we had the ability to resist.

Re: Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity

#24

Post by cphoover »

I agree that killer whale's shouldn't be kept in captivity, but than on the other hand, I also love me some bacon. Pigs are also sentient creatures with high intelligence yet we see them as a food source, and thus don't really care about their conditions in captivity.

Re: Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity

#25

Post by DamnYuppie »

funkyy wrote: post #22
Tiktaalik wrote: post #16

> In line with this, several decades of observation show that orcas are not naturally violent towards humans. There are no recorded cases of a wild orca killing a human. In a recent BBC Attenborough documentary (I think Frozen Planet) there was a sequence where they showed teams of killer whales swiftly swimming just under the surface to create a wave in an attempt to knock a seal off an ice flow so that they could e…

Attacks on humans by Orcas happens. Its that they do not eat humans, once they realize its us, they let go and swim away. They need to taste us first, especially if none of the members of group haven't tasted or interacted with humans before.

Same with most sharks. They have to bite you to know what you are, most shark attacks are quick strikes and then they let the victim go.

Re: Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity

#26

Post by schoen »

cphoover wrote: post #24

I agree that killer whale's shouldn't be kept in captivity, but than on the other hand, I also love me some bacon. Pigs are also sentient creatures with high intelligence yet we see them as a food source, and thus don't really care about their conditions in captivity.

That seems like an excellent example of "one man's modus ponens is another man's modus tollens".

Re: Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity

#27

Post by darklajid »

My wife keeps hitting me when I (intentionally, to mess with her) call these creatures 'killer whales'. The name doesn't help, really.

The subtitle is 'Keeping orcas in aquariums deprives them of crucial aspects of their lives, and in some cases it can even prove dangerous to humans'. BBC seems to know what these creatures are called, but prefers to use 'killer whales' in the title. Why? That's messed up, both in general and for this particular piece.

Re: Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity

#28

Post by crispyambulance »

funkyy wrote: post #22
Tiktaalik wrote: post #16

> In line with this, several decades of observation show that orcas are not naturally violent towards humans. There are no recorded cases of a wild orca killing a human. In a recent BBC Attenborough documentary (I think Frozen Planet) there was a sequence where they showed teams of killer whales swiftly swimming just under the surface to create a wave in an attempt to knock a seal off an ice flow so that they could e…

Attacks on humans by Orcas happens. Its that they do not eat humans, once they realize its us, they let go and swim away. They need to taste us first, especially if none of the members of group haven't tasted or interacted with humans before.

Good to know! Now which appendage should I offer for the tasting menu....

Re: Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity

#29

Post by wfunction »

darklajid wrote: post #27

My wife keeps hitting me when I (intentionally, to mess with her) call these creatures 'killer whales'. The name doesn't help, really. The subtitle is 'Keeping orcas in aquariums deprives them of crucial aspects of their lives, and in some cases it can even prove dangerous to humans'. BBC seems to know what these creatures are called, but prefers to use 'killer whales' in the title. Why? That's messed up, both in gen…

> Why?

I'm guessing if someone doesn't know what an "orca" is then they won't get the title at all. Whereas everyone knows what a whale is, even if they don't know what a killer whale specifically is.

Re: Why killer whales should not be kept in captivity

#30

Post by scoofy »

cphoover wrote: post #24

I agree that killer whale's shouldn't be kept in captivity, but than on the other hand, I also love me some bacon. Pigs are also sentient creatures with high intelligence yet we see them as a food source, and thus don't really care about their conditions in captivity.

So, there is animal rights, and animal welfare. I think one of the main problems for orcas is size. Creating an appropriately sized habitat for them would be a gargantuan endeavor, however, if we could, i think a lot of us would be less vehemently opposed to keeping them in captivity.

For pigs, this is entirely plausible. While i'm also very opposed to our current factory farming practices, since i'm fairly nihilistic about ending meat consumption for high functioning mammals in my lifetime, we could absolutely and trivially easily make their lives pleasant before slaughtering them for their delicious bacon. Yes, it would cause bacon to be more expensive, but it's definitely doable. This is simply impossible for orcas under the current paradigm.

Even as someone who supports animal rights and welfare, i could see myself being okay with orcas in captivity, if we're talking about oceanic reservations, say, the size of Connecticut, but at that size, it'd be impossible for us to make them do tricks and crap that people go to sea world for.

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