America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts • Hacker News Board

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#331

Post by rantanplan » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 5:28 PM UTC

saint_fiasco wrote: post #327

rantanplan wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of the things you mentioned are true and still homeschooling is worse. You know why? Our society is not without its flaws either. So unless you can provide a full alternative reality experience to your children, I'd say stand back. And by the way, who's preventing you to teach your children to identify(and thus ignore) the flaws of this system? What you're suggesting is the nuclear option and I don't see any reas…

>And by the way, who's preventing you to teach your children to identify(and thus ignore) the flaws of this system? What do you mean 'ignore'? If children are forced to go to school, they can hardly 'ignore' that they are being bullied or 'just go away' if a teachers is incompetent. Most children are perfectly capable of identifying the flaws, they are just impotent and can't do anything about it which causes additio…

The children are incapable. The parents are not.

If they don't know how to handle those things then maybe: 1) they should have thought better before deciding to have children and 2) seek help on how to raise them?

We used to live in the fucking jungle and you think that today's society is cruel? What's the matter with you people?

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#332

Post by rantanplan » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 5:38 PM UTC

dhimes wrote: post #319

rantanplan wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of the things you mentioned are true and still homeschooling is worse. You know why? Our society is not without its flaws either. So unless you can provide a full alternative reality experience to your children, I'd say stand back. And by the way, who's preventing you to teach your children to identify(and thus ignore) the flaws of this system? What you're suggesting is the nuclear option and I don't see any reas…

I'm no expert, but when I was teaching college I had a few homeschooled students. They were usually younger (still high-school aged) and better students than the traditional students in my classes. So I saw a select group. It seems to me that homeschooling is a great option for kids well away from the mean of the 'bell curve' - in either direction. It's difficult for the schools to properly handle kids that are far f…

Kids that are far from normal was not the topic here though.

Also, why should it be only the one or the other? These are not mutually exclusive. Personally, I went to school and I was homeschooled at the same time.

Removing regular school from the equation is almost always a bad idea.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#333

Post by bpyne » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 5:40 PM UTC

esaym wrote: post #305

rantanplan wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad that in my country there are laws that prohibit homeschooling to replace regular education. Also I see what problem they solve, to prevent people like you ruining a child's mental health. The public school system is more about socializing than gaining knowledge. But how could a person like you understand that, when you think that: " I think having them make $60 an hour while their friends make nothing will b…

> Also I see what problem they solve, to prevent people like you ruining a child's mental health. Strange comment. I'm thinking of all the girls I knew in public high school that would cut themselves. The boys did other kinds of self harm; severe drug use, and if they couldn't get drugs, they'd go huff gasoline. What I expect from my children is that they do a few hours of work in the morning, a few chores after lunc…

You've probably also seen little kids - elementary school aged kids - running drugs for older siblings. People in your school were more than likely terrified of going to school unless they were aligned with the right gang. These experiences are extremely traumatic. So, I can understand why you have such a strong opinion about public schools.

If you're still in that community, please get out. It'll change your perspective when you realize that your experiences are not the norm by a long shot.

My daughter goes to public school. Her experience couldn't be further from my memories. Granted it's only elementary school, but there is no bullying. There's no fighting. Kids form their own groups like everywhere else. But, they live and let live. The school has good academics, a theater program, and a homegrown after school program for parents who can't afford a private one and and can't be there for pick up when school ends.

There's a wide spectrum of public school experiences. But, the ones my daughter is having are more the norm than your own.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#334

Post by dockd » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 5:43 PM UTC

esaym wrote: post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

My observation of kids with good jobs in high school was they would give up school for the money. (See also: college.) Why would your child want to be in boring old school when they can make $60/hour?

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#335

Post by mindcrime » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 5:45 PM UTC

CalRobert wrote: post #168

mindcrime wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I doing this little american grammatical quirk with the punctuation within quotes right? Well, since the question part is quoted, I believe the '?' should go inside the quotation marks in this case. But I think most Americans would put the period outside of the quotes, or leave it off altogether in that case. It's one of those things where I doubt anybody (other than an English teacher) actually knows the formal r…

If memory serves, style guides suggest putting the punctuation inside the quotation marks, even if the punctuation applies to the larger sentence. This, of course, is dumb if you think about it. print "What an absurd convention!;"

If memory serves, style guides suggest putting the punctuation inside the quotation marks, even if the punctuation applies to the larger sentence.

Yeah, I've definitely seen that, but I've always thought of that as one of those controversial points where there's no real agreement. I feel like I remember this coming up on HN before and leading to quite a lot of discussion, although I might be mis-remembering.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#336

Post by restalis » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 5:47 PM UTC

PKop wrote: post #79

megablast wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are just going to teach them what you think is important? Home schooling has to be one of the most ridiculous ideas ever.

Whose judgement do you trust enough that you're willing to outsource this decision to? Would you let esaym teach your children what he thinks is important? What if he was your child's teacher? At the end of the day you're placing your trust in someone. They are just going to teach your kids what they think is important. Are you not willing to have an opinion on whether they are choosing the right things to teach?

I may get down-voted for this, but here it goes...

Parenting rights can be revoked if there is enough evidence of potential damage to be inflicted upon the subjected children. I think the same should go for a lot of other things. People should not be let to freely teach or heal or whatnot without some minimum qualification when stakes are high enough, even it it's about their own children. Not when an actual free and qualified alternative option is available. You think you know better for your children, but if your children get damaged it's the society that will support the consequences when they'll grow up. The freedom to inflict damage upon others has to be limited even when others are our own children.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#337

Post by wmt » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 5:50 PM UTC

"Americans who went to college and graduate school did well. They scored above their peers with similar degrees in other developed countries.

For young adults with a high school diploma or less, things did not look so good. These Americans performed significantly worse than those in other countries with the same education level."

Doesn't that just mean that smart kids in America are more likely to get a higher education than in other many other countries?

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#338

Post by notalaser » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 6:01 PM UTC

krinchan wrote: post #295

notalaser wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One has to wonder...does it really matter what you learn in school? When I'd just finished high school, I thought it was irrelevant. Now, many years afterwards, I can see the incredible influence it had over me and I can wholeheartedly say that it does, to an incredible extent. Virtually every single element of the foundation of my profession, views about and understanding of art, science and the human spirit in ge…

I don't use Calculus every day, but the whole "stop thinking about specific Y-values and start thinking about how functions behave together and influence each other" is just invaluable in a world ruled by numbers that are in constant flux. To be honest though, I always thought that Linear Algebra would've been a much better AP class than Calculus. Sure Calculus naturally follows Trigonometry, but Linear Algebra has t…

Yeah, I was pretty upset at this, too. In high school, I was taught a very washed-down form of linear algebra (very basic vector and matrix operations), and then in uni, calculus and linear algebra were taught at the same time. I made up for it pretty much by going over a linear algebra textbook all by myself, again, in my 3rd year of university.

I get to use Calculus pretty often because I regularly do both hardware and software work (perks of having an EE degree; according to my diploma, I'm an intruder and should not be allowed to touch computers :-) ). Analog systems have continuous-valued inputs and outputs and you can't really describe those without Calc, and in mixed-signal systems you often describe various properties of the discrete signals by starting from their continuous counterpart.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#339

Post by gardano » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 6:10 PM UTC

roymurdock wrote: post #301

kagamine wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A colon?! A COLON?! Are you sure that should be there?

Personally, I would go with the em dash. You should ask yourself -- "Am I sure that colon should be there?".

Should I ask myself, "Do I love this rabbit hole?"?

Edit: The answer is YES.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#340

Post by bawana » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 6:11 PM UTC

This is news? We have been devaluing education for decades as we pay teachers less than a poverty level wage (unless you are in that unnecessary branch-administration). Witness the populist appeal of Trump. Anyone with common sense (which our school system has been so effective in extinguishing) would recognize a demagogue even without the prior example of Hitler.

Solution: Khan academy. let them issue diplomas.