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How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University

quantstart.com

11–20 of 77 posts

Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University

#11
post #5

I know that many learn programming themselves but I'm curious if anyone have learn advanced mathematics this way.

I did. It wasn't easy and I had the support of a large team of people to fall back on.

10 years ago I was an early employee of a risk analytics firm. I got pushed into a quant roll because I had an engineering background and could solve PDE's.

My first meeting I remember the head of the quant team hand-waved over a bunch of math that took me two weeks to go through on my own.

I had to spend 2-3 nights a week for 1 year going over my old statistics texts, Differential equations text and Knuth's Concrete Mathematics before I moved onto Stochastic Calculus.

It would have been almost impossible without having a team of people who were willing to help me get through sticking points. That was 8-10 years ago. I still spend atleast 1 night a week learning new math, though now its mostly non-linear regression and chaos theory.

And to be honest I still get alot of quants looking down on me, "A guy who dropped out of his masters, trying to claim he's our equal?". That does bother me a bit, and it means I probably couldn't get a quant job at Goldman, but I'm very proud of where I am now and how I got there!

TL/DR It can be done, but it gets done over the course of years, not months or weeks. You won't get there without applying what you learned to real world applications, reading the text's aren't enough.

Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University

#12

It's cute that quants think what they do is advanced, isn't it?

It's cute that the article is littered with Amazon referral links to textbooks.

I'm curious why people care about articles with referral links. It's not like you're paying more if you end up buying something, is it?

Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University

#13
post #9

An early place where the OP dropped the ball: > and some good experience manipulating continuous functions and their derivatives. Nope. If a function is differentiable, then it is continuous, but continuity is not sufficient for differentiability. So, we can't talk in general about the derivatives of continuous functions. E.g., each sample path of Brownian motion is almost surely differentiable nowhere. Just f(x) = |…

Thank you for pointing out my mistake! Indeed, that was a slip of mine to write about continuous functions, assuming they had derivatives.

Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University

#14
post #5

I know that many learn programming themselves but I'm curious if anyone have learn advanced mathematics this way.

I did. It wasn't easy and I had the support of a large team of people to fall back on. 10 years ago I was an early employee of a risk analytics firm. I got pushed into a quant roll because I had an engineering background and could solve PDE's. My first meeting I remember the head of the quant team hand-waved over a bunch of math that took me two weeks to go through on my own. I had to spend 2-3 nights a week for 1 ye…

Thanks for sharing this. It's good to hear from others who have been through similar experiences!

I fully agree with you that one needs to think in terms of years and not days, weeks or even months. I do make this point in the article, as well.

Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University

#15
post #5

I know that many learn programming themselves but I'm curious if anyone have learn advanced mathematics this way.

I took a Masters in Mathematics with the Open University. It's not quite as brutal as simply telling you which textbook to read and see you in nine months for the exam (repeat five times), but it's not far off.

It's not quite entirely by yourself, as in the webpage linked, but it worked like this:

  1) Get sent problem sheets and a list of what chapters
     in a textbook to work through.
  2) Read textbook.
  3) Solve the problems in the textbook.
  4) Watch a one-hour live webcast to you (and a dozen 
     other people) four times.
  5) Send off completed problem sheets; if you make the 
     pass mark, your prize is a seat in the exam.
  6) Optionally pay for a weekend of direct instruction to 
     you (and a dozen others) in person somewhere (I did
     this 3 times out of six, I think).
  7) Sit three hour exam in supervised exam hall.
  8) Go home, open next textbook.
  9) Repeat four more times, and then write a dissertation.
As in the linked webpage; it's just you and the textbook, for nine months. Not the same as in the linked webpage; there is a tutor you can eMail. This was often not as useful as you might think and some years I eMailed my tutor fewer than five times.

Also not the same; a formal, full-on three hours exam in a formal exam hall. This sets the bar pretty high and is a really good indicator to yourself. I think this makes a real difference; someone else validating that yes, you really do know what you're talking about (or not, as the case may be - I think that of everyone who starts this, less than fifty percent pass the first exam, and if I had to guess, I'd say that it's not so much that the maths is hard; making yourself study it to the level required month after month is hard).

I estimated that the time I spent on this was roughly equivalent to working full-time for 6-8 weeks per year. Interestingly, if I'd been given an actual 8 week block, I don't think I could have done it. I couldn't spend 8 hours a day reading a maths textbook and get the same from it as if I'd done it in four two-hour blocks spread over a week.

Coming back from an exam, sitting down at the table, putting all the notes and papers and books from the previous subject to one side and then sliding the virginal textbook and brand new notes and problem sheets onto the table was brutal. It can be done, but you have to want it. I found that in terms of taking in new knowledge, I couldn't do more than a couple of hours with the textbook at a time. For practising and solving problems, I could sometimes sit down at lunchtime on Saturday to just have a go at one quickly and stand up again eight hours later, table covered in notes and the problem at hand having been thoroughly explored and answered (typically, sadly, spread over several pieces of paper which I would come back to in the future and condense into a smaller paper space).

The study habit it forced into me is enormously valuable in itself. I can now pick up a high-level maths text book and simply start learning. I won't understand much of it, but I know that if I keep at it, I will. Grind, grind, grind. Not just mathematics, either. Someone gave me a Learn Japanese book for Christmas and now it's in me. I ground through it, and now I've got another one and I'm going through that. It's as if the subject doesn't really matter, so much as the studying.

Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University

#16
post #5

I know that many learn programming themselves but I'm curious if anyone have learn advanced mathematics this way.

One famous, although admittedly not particularly recent, example of a mathematical autodidact is Srinivasa Ramanujan ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srinivasa_Ramanujan ).

How does bringing a genius into the conversation in anyway answer the question?

Hopefully, they do a good story with the most recent movie on Ramanujan's life:

http://deadline.com/2015/09/the-man-who-knew-infinity-exclus...

Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University

#17
post #9

An early place where the OP dropped the ball: > and some good experience manipulating continuous functions and their derivatives. Nope. If a function is differentiable, then it is continuous, but continuity is not sufficient for differentiability. So, we can't talk in general about the derivatives of continuous functions. E.g., each sample path of Brownian motion is almost surely differentiable nowhere. Just f(x) = |…

>> and some good experience manipulating continuous functions and their derivatives.

> Nope

1. "good experience manipulating differentiable functions and their derivatives" sounds weird in prose.

2. Some continuous functions are differentiable. Those ones have derivatives you can manipulate. In fact knowing when a function is not differentiable is a pretty useful skill.

> The interview was in their computer group, but I indicated that I'd like to get into quantitative trading -- they acted like they had never heard of any such thing.

Sounds like you interviewed for position X and talked about wanting position Y, and were rightly rejected as "not a good fit; likely to leave at first opportunity".

> only a very tiny fraction of the people on Wall Street had good backgrounds in measure theory and stochastic processes based on measure theory

Probably true. Think of this as "calculus for engineers vs. analysis", and imagine how well a civil engineering interview would go if you talked about different types of integrals instead of talking about how to use the basic stuff to build good bridges. Fact is most people in industry are looking for "calculus for engineers" levels of formal understanding. Enough to be useful and make money while avoiding expensive mistakes.

> and were looking to hire people like themselves.

Also probably true. This is a good assumption not just on Wall St but everywhere.

Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University

#18
post #6
post #5

I know that many learn programming themselves but I'm curious if anyone have learn advanced mathematics this way.

What are the best ways for a non-genius, normal person to learn advanced mathematics?

I wrote this answer to a similar question in /r/math last year. You might enjoy it:

https://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/3ixyw3/how_can_i_begi...

Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University

#19

It's cute that quants think what they do is advanced, isn't it?

The word "advanced" is relative to the intended audience and it's obvious how he meant that word to be applied. The author wrote:

", chances are if you are considering studying advanced mathematics you will already have formal qualifications in the basics, particularly the mathematics learnt in junior and senior highschool (GCSE and A-Level for those of us in the UK!). "

The author is not a Fields Medalist writing to other PhD mathematics graduate students. In such a case, the adjective "advanced" would have a different meaning.

Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University

#20
post #4

It's cute that quants think what they do is advanced, isn't it?

I don't know any successful quants that claim what they do is "advanced" in any fashion.

A year or so ago a chum asked me to take a look at a paper that some of her quants were basing their work on. When I dug through it and pulled out all the plagiarism in it (and I do mean that; it had literally been hacked together out of other papers by some chancer in a middle-eastern university) it turned out to be a Crank–Nicolson method, and then when I saw what they were doing with it, I reckoned they could have just used a crayon and drawn over the graph they were interested in to get their smoothed graph. I do know that soon after that she got a job somewhere else. You can find hacks and chancers in every walk of life.

[1] In the above text, "hack" and "hacker" is used in the pejorative sense, similar to a "hack journalist".

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