America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts • Hacker News Board

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#271

Post by nibs » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 2:14 PM UTC

This study does not surprise me. All four of my grandparents were educators for their entire career. And as a result, my parents decided to unschool my brothers and I.

In trying to be as objective and self-aware as possible, it is clear to us that the homeschoolers/unschoolers we built a community with are vastly better prepared for adulthood, regardless of level of general intelligence. There is a reason the acceptance rate at Stanford is ~27% for homeschoolers vs. 5% for those who went to school. [1]

Regardless of the pursuit, it seems like our friends who went to school the whole time are stuck in this weird immature pergatory where they can't make decisions or stick to things.

For the most part, the unschooler/homeschoolers are similar demographics, and from all different "walks of life", and yet invariably omit this issue of accepting adulthood.

Our thesis was always that school spoon feeds you, and you have to learn the pain of learning independently to be successful and learn a real growth mindset. But who knows. It is a complicated issue.

[1]: http://pqdtopen.proquest.com/doc/1011320109.html?FMT=AI&pubn...

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#272

Post by briandear » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 2:17 PM UTC

brightball wrote: post #266

gregatragenet3 wrote: post #24

Of course the US does poorly in this survey. The survey measures life skills. We've spent the last decades changing our schools from teaching life skills to pure college prep. A terrible disservice to young people. Here's some sample questions http://www.oecd.org/site/piaac/Education%20and%20Skills_onli... .

The only way to fix that is with true school choice options. That way when parents realize it's a problem they can send their kids to schools that make a point to include it rather than the ones that leave it out completely.

Yes, but teacher unions and Democrats hate that. The idea of free market competition is contrary to every bone in their bodies. That could lead to actual accountability. Currently the US school system is the Lada, free markets could turn it into a Honda.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#273

Post by jessaustin » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 2:18 PM UTC

Mikeb85 wrote: post #128

naveen99 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funding doesn't help enough by itself, and the poor school districts get supplemental funds from federal and state governments bringing their total funding on par or higher than richer school districts. I went through poor public schools and richer public schools. Resources were not very different. If anything less competition at poor schools gave me an extra edge.

> If anything less competition at poor schools gave me an extra edge. How so? Are they curving grades? Smaller class sizes because of more drop-outs? More teacher attention because you cared more than the 'poor' kids?

Obviously OP meant it is easier to get higher class rank/valedictorian at poor noncompetitive schools than at rich competitive schools. Many colleges use class rank when deciding admittance.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#274

Post by emp_zealoth » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 2:22 PM UTC

grogenaut wrote: post #176

coryrc wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if your post is sarcastic. Of course I remember what I learned in high school. Just had to waste time repeating orders that 90* is the proper offset so the slope is maximum on one sine wave when the slope is minimum on another. It'd be really great if they taught kids accounting, net present value calculations, how to clean themselves properly, avoid getting pregnant when desired, and so many other skill…

My catholic highschool taught me all of the above and prepped me well for college. Even taught me to question religion and a lot of other things. Point was "think for yourself, come to your own conclusions. Love God for real." I didn't get the last one, got the other two. They were totally fine with the result.

My catholic highschool vehemetly denied condoms work, scared everyone about anything contraceptive, lied and manipulated about a lot of various other things too. Point was "Listen to your betters, sheeple" It was a truly traumatic experience, considering it only reinforced my hate for self-proclaimed-"authority" Imagine how fun it is right now to live, surrounded by lying sacks of shit right and left (obviously not all,but disheartening amount) PS. Yes,I am angry. Very much so

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#275

Post by pokolovsky » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 2:23 PM UTC

That's really funny.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#276

Post by novaleaf » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 2:23 PM UTC

ryaniscool wrote: post #265

As a parent of a school-age child, I hate studies like this. It's exactly the sort of thing that leads to mandated programs like common core. Here's the thing, my son spends more time doing homework and studying for tests in elementary school than I ever did throughout my entire public education. I have worked internationally. From my own anecdotal experience, I didn't see a difference in intelligence or ability to d…

my anecdote: I have seen a huge difference in ability (of developers). I think it's more due to geopolitical differences though, not just education.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#277

Post by jessaustin » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 2:24 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #96

esaym wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, the pace of public education is horribly slow. Kids are bored, they need something to do.

This is partially because public schools have to also accommodate kids with disabilities, English learners, and those who simply will never keep up. For these kids, public education is horribly accelerated and they're being left behind.

Yes it's terrible for both sets of students. You don't mean to suggest that equal-opportunity educational failure is in some sense better than only failing one group, do you?

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#278

Post by kagamine » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 2:25 PM UTC

SixSigma wrote: post #213

kagamine wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Brit: You should ask yourself, "should it?".

Or, as another Brit: You should ask yourself: "should it?"

A colon?! A COLON?! Are you sure that should be there?

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#279

Post by pc86 » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 2:28 PM UTC

tn13 wrote: post #190

jacquesm wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Think they'll teach them Python or Swift? Those will not be a career path for much longer. > Conversely, I fully expect to start "outsourcing" my web dev work to my children when they are 13. Child labor got outlawed long ago, which is one of the reasons a lot of countries have mandatory education. High school is about much more than learning programming language or marketable skills, that's what you have secondary…

I don't think parents making their children work for an incentive is child labor.

> children

> work

Yes, child labor.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#280

Post by Xeoncross » Fri, Mar 11, 2016, 2:28 PM UTC

nibs wrote: post #271

This study does not surprise me. All four of my grandparents were educators for their entire career. And as a result, my parents decided to unschool my brothers and I. In trying to be as objective and self-aware as possible, it is clear to us that the homeschoolers/unschoolers we built a community with are vastly better prepared for adulthood, regardless of level of general intelligence. There is a reason the accepta…

I was a failure in public school because of A) poor social interaction B) focus on testing instead of learning and C) not fitting in the mold.

I did private school, independent study, public school in two states (CA and TX), and Homeschool.

Homeschool and public school can be the most easily abused. It's hard to abuse private schools since there is usually more focus on the students.

However, it's clear to me that homeschooling is the winner for most people. You can completely customize the curricula and learning methods to help people learn the best.

The social interactions in homeschool are also far better. Rather than learning how to deal with childish peers only (being locked in a classroom for 8 hours a day), you can actually go explore the world and learn how to interact with every age level. There are thousands of homeschool groups though if you really want to have that peer-pressure stuff.