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Trackers

jacquesmattheij.com

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Re: Trackers

#71

Post by jacquesm »

dhimes wrote: post #67
jacquesm wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's all you got from it then I should really do my best to write better. One of the key parts - to me - is that the data silos start trading your data as if it is theirs to whoever pays for it, and that goes a lot further than a real time bidding on ad space, even if that was the initial drive to collect that data.

Maybe an allegory about how, based on the tracking data, the price you pay for something (say airline tickets) changes. Or the availability of health insurance for your kids? I don't have any facts on which to base the latter, however, but I suspect it's either happening or only a matter of time.

That would require proof, and I don't have that proof. Maybe someone in either of these industries can point to something solid?

edit: ok, found this: http://www.groovypost.com/howto/news/dynamic-pricing-use-chr...

But it's still a little weak as proof.

Re: Trackers

#72

Post by karmacondon »

jacquesm wrote: post #36
karmacondon wrote: post #32

Where this analogy breaks down is that the people sent to track you are invisible and can't be seen without the aid of special technology. So what you end up telling people is that they are being followed everywhere by invisible ghosts, who's only desire is to change what ads appear in their newspaper. And it appears that the reaction of most people is about what you'd expect. If a store has policy of "If you come in…

If that's all you got from it then I should really do my best to write better. One of the key parts - to me - is that the data silos start trading your data as if it is theirs to whoever pays for it, and that goes a lot further than a real time bidding on ad space, even if that was the initial drive to collect that data.

It is their data. What they sell is essentially their http access logs, the ip address and time of every page request. While that information may pertain to you, it's not yours. They own it and can do what they want with it, including selling it to the highest bidder. That's true for any website that keeps access logs.

If the idea that some websites sell their access logs really disturbs you, don't request pages from websites that do that. Just like someone who is afraid of heights can't go to high places, people averse to ad tracking won't be able to go to most websites. Most people don't want to give up their favorite websites, so ad tracking persists.

Many companies that produce or aggregate content do so with the expectation that their efforts will be rewarded with money from ads. When you use an ad blocker, you reap the benefits of their work while knowingly depriving them of what they expected to earn in return. It would be better if you just didn't read their content, effectively voting against their behavior with your feet. Blocking the ads is having your cake and eating theirs too. It's rather benign, there are much worse things, but it isn't really right either.

Re: Trackers

#73

Post by WillKirkby »

WA wrote: post #48
wouterinho wrote: post #37

It is funny how things change when you use the physical world metaphor. There was a campaign recently by the Dutch regulatory agency that made people aware of the implications of allowing permissions in "free" apps. They made an (anecdotal) video by promising a free cup of coffee in exchange for your contact list on your phone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYXM56YJWSo (Dutch unfortunately)

Nice video. My wife has an Android phone, I have an iPhone. Recently, I wanted to install some app on her phone and it is still beyond my understanding, why Google still doesn't allow to deny certain permissions. It's all or nothing. And no, a fucking video editor shouldn't require access to my contacts, my browsing history and the accounts on my phone. Android imho is unusable until they let me deny certain permissi…

As of 6.0 Marshmallow, you can disable any permission you want. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZqDdvhTZj0

Re: Trackers

#74

Post by cm2187 »

S4M wrote: post #3

Thank you Jacques for writing how something that would be completely unacceptable in the physical world is deemed perfectly fine online. It has always bothered me. Take for example how the FBI wants to have automatic access to the data in all iphones through a backdoor. Would that be considered OK if they asked lockers makers to make their locks accept a master key so they would be able to enter in anybody's house, s…

and all communications being recorded is like having every phone line tapped by default. And USPS / Royal Mail opening everyone's mail.

Re: Trackers

#75

Post by jacquesm »

hoopsho wrote: post #69

I got tired of seeing a drill show up on a bunch of sites after I just searched for it on Home Depot... I block ads on my workstation, but with tablets I just could not find an easy way to block trackers for my whole family. So Metiix Blockade was born out of this frustration... Now I have "bouncers" protecting my whole network for every one of my devices. I hate when a web page decides what ads and trackers it wants…

Added a link at the end of the article, it looks like your project is free and clean as far as I can see.

Re: Trackers

#76

Post by brlewis »

I just disabled third-party cookies on my phone and computer. I'll see if it causes me any problems.

I already have adblock plus on my computer.

Re: Trackers

#77

Post by jacquesm »

karmacondon wrote: post #72
jacquesm wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's all you got from it then I should really do my best to write better. One of the key parts - to me - is that the data silos start trading your data as if it is theirs to whoever pays for it, and that goes a lot further than a real time bidding on ad space, even if that was the initial drive to collect that data.

It is their data. What they sell is essentially their http access logs, the ip address and time of every page request. While that information may pertain to you, it's not yours. They own it and can do what they want with it, including selling it to the highest bidder. That's true for any website that keeps access logs. If the idea that some websites sell their access logs really disturbs you, don't request pages from…

No company sells their http access logs, please don't talk nonsense. The data that is sold is sold to marketeers and is the highest grade profile data that you could get. See the 'schober' link on the page and try to at least be a little bit informed before you start throwing around such opinionated stuff. Schober is an easy target for me because they actually list what they sell, they are also a very old company (they were in business long before the web was born). But they are not the only ones. If you feel like reading a bit on what kind of information is being made available a good place to start would be the RTB spec:

https://github.com/openrtb/OpenRTB

So your whole argument here is based on a strawman.

Re: Trackers

#78

Post by gglitch »

matt4077 wrote: post #70
gglitch wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is meant by "populist" in this critique?

It means roughly the same as when the term is applied to politicians when they promise lower taxes: A popular measure that actually has detrimental effects in the long term (with the possible connotation that the politician should/does know this and is just exploiting some base emotions).

Does it not sound solidly, unambiguously sound for the long-term health of the market to increase the ability of consumers to make informed decisions?

Re: Trackers

#80

Post by rmc »

Doctor_Fegg wrote: post #15

Believe it or not, some stores sympathise with you. They might actually be run by people like you, people who read your story. They still want to know how you proceed round the store, because that helps them optimise shelf layout, identify hard-to-find items, and so on. So yes, they might use the standard in-store CCTV to observe your journeys, and when they figure that you and people like you always have difficulty…

Tough.

The advertising industry and tracking has gone too far. The amount of websites with local analytics is small. I suspect that nearly all US based shops with local analytics is breaking (EU) data protection law. Why should I assist them in breaking the law when it harms my privacy?

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