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America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

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Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#231
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather than this conclusion, perhaps, look at what other countries are doing? Are they leaving children behind? or do they have better techniques for making sure everyone does well?

Germany, in fact, does leave people behind. But it doesn't leave them without perspective. The tiered school model of Germany sorts you into one of three tiers based on your abilities with the age of 10, which gets even more specific over the years after that. Only people finishing from the highest tier can go to a theoretical university, people from the tier below can at maximum go to a university of applied science…

Students from technical high schools can attend theoretical universities and just need to do some remedial prep work first.

It's necessary not because of what some people can't do, but because:

1. It doesn't make sense to send people, who want to work in hospitality for example, to a school that has to pay for physics, chemical engineering, medical labs, etc.

2. Reducing the shopping mall quality of the American-style university -- and equally respecting technical and trade schools for the education they provide -- results in a more even distribution of attendance and probably healthier personal debt.

A lot of the German school routing is directed by desire as well; the solution is to help youngsters explore and express the skills they have most strongly.

The architecture is a bit complicated, though the picture on Wikipedia does an alright job explaining it, I think:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Germany#Overview

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#232
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

13 year olds should be treated like 13 years olds: they go to school and after they leave they get to go hang out with their boy/girlfriends, do sports, ride their bikes around or play videogames with their friends.

Mozart at 13 was not hanging out with his friends partying around.

I remember my musical teacher mentioning me about Mozart being over-solicited in his childhood and that that affected his adult life. He died young, after years of health issues.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#233
As a non-native speaker this sentence actually got me a bit unsure (perhaps because I looked too much at it):

"Buy one, get the second half off."

Is that meant as the second unit you buy, you get half off? Don't know if this is a common way to phrase a discount like that in the US..

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#234
post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

What the hell? "My kids are gonna be web devs by 13 and they're gonna like it!" Is this considered normal with you stylish, American, Silicon Valley types? Do you think children are like Pokemons or Sims or RPG characters who you control from a 3rd person perspective?

I suspect that the op is not a normal SV resident I suspect that they come from a culture where child labor is stil Dickensian.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#235
post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

> Think they'll teach them Python or Swift? Those will not be a career path for much longer. > Conversely, I fully expect to start "outsourcing" my web dev work to my children when they are 13. Child labor got outlawed long ago, which is one of the reasons a lot of countries have mandatory education. High school is about much more than learning programming language or marketable skills, that's what you have secondary…

"Those will not be a career path for much longer."

How can you tell?

EDIT: Swift being dependent for the most part on someone's ecosystem - maybe, but Python?

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#236
The test checked literacy, numeracy, and IT skills. US did fine on literacy, so-so on numeracy, and last on IT skills. Which is interesting given where most tech comes from.

Here's an example of the sort of task you had to complete (http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2016/2016039.pdf):

> Level 3: Meeting rooms (Item ID: U02) Difficulty score: 346 This task involves managing requests to reserve a meeting room on a particular date using a reservation system. Upon discovering that one of the reservation requests cannot be accommodated, the test-taker has to send an e-mail message declining the request. Successfully completing the task involves taking into account multiple constraints (e.g., the number of rooms available and existing reservations). Impasses exist, as the initial constraints generate a conflict (one of the demands for a room reservation cannot be satisfied). The impasse has to be resolved by initiating a new sub-goal, i.e., issuing a standard message to decline one of the requests. Two applications are present in the environment: an e-mail interface with a number of e-mails stored in an inbox containing the room reservation requests, and a web-based reservation tool that allows the user to assign rooms to meetings at certain times. The item requires the test-taker to “[u]se information from a novel web application and several e-mail messages, establish and apply criteria to solve a scheduling problem where an impasse must be resolved, and communicate the outcome.” The task involves multiple applications, a large number of steps, a built-in impasse, and the discovery and use of ad hoc commands in a novel environment. The test-taker has to establish a plan and monitor its implementation in order to minimize the number of conflicts. In addition, the test-taker has to transfer information from one application (e-mail) to another (the room-reservation tool).

Basically, users are given an intentionally badly designed user interface in which they receive no training, and a task that is impossible to accomplish within the obvious constraints of the interface, and asked to accomplish a goal. It simulates the experience of being a low paid customer service rep in the third world using crappy software and seeing if you can handle it or not. If one has common sense, intelligence, and a sense of valuing their own time, they will recognize this tasks as useless BS and refuse to cooperate further in the test.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#237
Not just any "other countries". PIAAC measures against other European and East Asian countries.

To put it politely, the US has much greater demographic diversity, with its associated implications for IQ and consequently, all associated g factors.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#238
post #233

As a non-native speaker this sentence actually got me a bit unsure (perhaps because I looked too much at it): "Buy one, get the second half off." Is that meant as the second unit you buy, you get half off? Don't know if this is a common way to phrase a discount like that in the US..

Not a native speaker either, but I spent a fair amount of time in the US and Canada; and I don't think I've ever heard that phrase. Usually it's "buy one, get one free" or some variation of that.

The phrase you mentioned would mean that you receive 2 units and pay for 1.5.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#239
"""things like using email, buying and returning items online, using a drop-down menu, naming a file on a computer or sending a text message."""

Way to measure stuff! How about using instant messaging, swiping and dragging stuff, taking pictures with a phone and sending them and doing tasks with Siri/HG instead? We're taking about HS-level students, right? They seem to be measuring stuff for older folks :P

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#240

Not just any "other countries". PIAAC measures against other European and East Asian countries. To put it politely, the US has much greater demographic diversity, with its associated implications for IQ and consequently, all associated g factors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_ranked_by_et...
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