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America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

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Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#41

Post by Xeoncross »

esaym wrote: post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

It's not that you have to leave education. But anything would be better than 12 years just to learn the basics so they can re-learn them again in college. Public schools waste way, way too much time. Get kids into college sooner so they can actually learn things.

I was that kid. I went to the "best" high school in all the surrounding cities. It was a mess, sub-pair on every academic, legal, and social level. Teachers taking bribes, drugs, fights, teachers that didn't know their subjects well enough (I helped teach one class).

I dropped out and went to college.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#42

Post by 2bitencryption »

This also demonstrates the drastic disparity of quality.

You can either be getting a world-class education in the best high schools, or apparently a terrible one. I'm glad I went to a good high school. I never knew how good my education was until my first year of college, in my first writing class. Yeesh.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#43

Post by esaym »

Xeoncross wrote: post #41
esaym wrote: post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

It's not that you have to leave education. But anything would be better than 12 years just to learn the basics so they can re-learn them again in college. Public schools waste way, way too much time. Get kids into college sooner so they can actually learn things. I was that kid. I went to the "best" high school in all the surrounding cities. It was a mess, sub-pair on every academic, legal, and social level. Teachers…

Indeed, the pace of public education is horribly slow. Kids are bored, they need something to do.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#44

Post by [deleted] »

2bitencryption wrote: post #42

This also demonstrates the drastic disparity of quality. You can either be getting a world-class education in the best high schools, or apparently a terrible one. I'm glad I went to a good high school. I never knew how good my education was until my first year of college, in my first writing class. Yeesh.

[deleted]

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#45

Post by supercheetah »

chatmasta wrote: post #36
hn9780470248775 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the top of the bell curve that matters. I think that this attitude has gotten us into a pretty big mess.

You can't force somebody to learn.

Sure, but environmental factors play a pretty big factor in how much people will want to learn.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#46

Post by cmurf »

esaym wrote: post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

And what if they don't want to do web dev work, ever?

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#47

Post by mattmanser »

esaym wrote: post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

You want your children to become programmers like you? Not one of the thousands of other jobs? You want to force them to be mini-esayms without their own minds?

You don't want them to make friends, socialize, network with their peers? To explore their own wants and desires in the safety of a school without your constant disapproval?

You want them to spend their 20s in counselling complaining about their bizarre dad who schooled them at home and forced them to work instead of grow?

2 sides to every coin.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#48

Post by naveen99 »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #28
chatmasta wrote: post #22

I'd be much more interested in a study that compares the top 1 percentile of graduates between countries. Of course the bulk of US graduates are going to be unskilled... that's just how the bell curve works, and the US has the resources to support lots of unskilled laborers. It's the top of the bell curve that matters. How do the smartest engineers and scientists in the US compare to their counterparts in other count…

Well the top 1% in the US will look decent I think. The US had, at some point, decided they wanted the school system to be unequal when they associated funding with property taxes from each region, thereby ensuring rich neighborhoods have well funded school, and poor neighborhoods poor schools. This enshines inequality into the system, so the top will have comparatively more resources. And you're far too optimistic a…

Funding doesn't help enough by itself, and the poor school districts get supplemental funds from federal and state governments bringing their total funding on par or higher than richer school districts. I went through poor public schools and richer public schools. Resources were not very different. If anything less competition at poor schools gave me an extra edge.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#49

Post by awakeasleep »

mattmanser wrote: post #47
esaym wrote: post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

You want your children to become programmers like you? Not one of the thousands of other jobs? You want to force them to be mini-esayms without their own minds? You don't want them to make friends, socialize, network with their peers? To explore their own wants and desires in the safety of a school without your constant disapproval? You want them to spend their 20s in counselling complaining about their bizarre dad w…

You're imagining a world where people go to college and find high paying jobs after following their dream without their parents holding them back.

That is actually a marketing story, dangerous and unrealistic to believe.

Esaym is talking about teaching his kids a real skill they can use. It certainly won't override their ability to learn and persue things- it'll actually make that possible. It'll enable them to make decisions in life without having to pray they can find a way to make money, and they'll have a fundamental skill that'll help them whichever way they decide to go.

People don't generally get good jobs by their own elbow grease. They get them because of their network and connections. Your family is a huge part of that network, and passing on a skill like a trade is one of the surest ways you can ensure your children actually have a future.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#50

Post by thwarted »

Houshalter wrote: post #39
Cookingboy wrote: post #12

And in this age of information and technology, many of these people are voting to decide the next leader of the only superpower left on Earth. This may sound grossly elitist, but democracy can be super scary sometimes.

Democracy is a really shitty form of government. It prevents tyrants, and it prevents a single party from holding power for too long. Which are great benefits over, e.g. monarchies. But the average voter isn't informed enough to really understand all the issues. So who wins isn't really correlated with who is best or who is right. In my ideal form of government, the representatives would not be elected, but randomly…

A "representative democracy" is one specifically where the average voter doesn't need to be informed enough to really understand all the issues, and that's supposed to be its advantage. In contrast, direct democracy is best when all the voters (have the time to) understand the issues. But that's not very pragmatic, so we do representative democracy. But of course, that has its own issues, as what to understand moves from "the issues" to "the candidates".

Somehow, this reminded me of this bit by Douglas Adams From "So Long and Thanks for all the Fish" (in part):

    "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much
    assume that the government they've voted in more or
    less approximates to the government they want."
    "You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"
    "Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
    "But," said Arthur, going for the big one again,
    "why?"
    "Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said
    Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?"
http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/162557-it-comes-from-a-very-...
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