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Microsoft will release a custom Debian Linux

theregister.co.uk

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Re: Microsoft will release a custom Debian Linux

#121

Post by qwertyuiop924 »

simoncion wrote: post #69
qwertyuiop924 wrote: post #52

Ah, how wonderful it will be to live in a world without embrace and extend. Wait. systemd, kdbus, GNOME and systemd-udevd. Shit. We have met the enemy, and befriended it. Now we are the enemy.

Well, the "peanut gallery" [0] pushed back on kdbus back in the 4.1 merge window and -incredibly- it looks like the devs in charge of kdbus are redesigning it. (kdbus may or may not now be called bus1... it's not clear at this point.) Last I checked, kdbus isn't even being shipped in Fedora latest anymore. [0] AKA: The engineers in charge of QA and technical critique of major changes to the Linux kernel.

Thank god. dbus has no business being in the kernel. In fact, Linus said that the problem was just that dbus was coded poorly, and that it could probably perform well in userspace. But Greg wanted it in, and Linus trusts Greg...

I mean, honestly. Go look at some of Linus's usenet postings circa 1990-2005. This is exactly the kind of thing that he said should never, EVER, go into the kernel.

Re: Microsoft will release a custom Debian Linux

#122

Post by baldfat »

d0lph wrote: post #116
baldfat wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be wrong about you personally and I am speaking of the Linux Community as a whole. I still find it incredibly hypocritical of people's anti-Microsoft stance while they walk around with their Apple products. I seriously see more Macs at every Linux event then any other kind of computer. Most Anti-Microsoft really is anti-Steve Ballmer.

I think Apple at least has not tried to strategically attack linux/OSS via rumors and lies a la halloween documents. But I certainly agree that the linux community on a whole should re-evaluate its position on MS. If you expect that to happen over night, you are a fool.

Once again that is Steve Ballmer. If this was a whole corporate belief it would have been true through the whole company and its policy and it wasn't.

NOT defending the bad parts of MS but people treat MS as the evil empire when it was a divided HUGE company. Inside MS there were plenty of positive open source people and projects inside of MS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_free_and_open-sourc...

I believe the Anti-MS is way out of proportion and distracts from worse offenders. Look at Oracle that company is the devil to Open/Free software and people will still run Oracle products all the time. (Stares at my own OpenBox for use with Vagrant on my Windows machine next to me). IBM and their incredible patent farm (IBM year in and year out the number one patent company in America).

Apple is the polar opposite of the open source movement. Apple has been guilty of price fixing ebooks, patent misuse and the copyrighting of design and slide to unlock. Apple does not work with the community but behind high secret walls. You share a secret and they might send the police after you or sue you. They black list reporters that share an opinion that is negative to Apple from access to the company, events and products.

So yes MS has made many bad moves but I wouldn't even say they are the worst. If you take out anything Steve Ballmer has said they are actually were better then most.

Open Source Movement has won and we should celebrate the victories. SQL Server on Linux I wouldn't have thought this in a million years and C# opened. These are amazing days.

Re: Microsoft will release a custom Debian Linux

#123

Post by qwertyuiop924 »

dsr_ wrote: post #58
qwertyuiop924 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not iirc. But I wasn't around at the time, so nobody told me anything about what was wrong with the 286 in the first place.

As I recall, it was mostly that backwards-compatibility with 8086 was so required that they put every useful performance enhancement except raw MHz in a separate protected mode... and then you couldn't switch between protected and real mode without (I am not making this up) asking the 8042 processor controlling the keyboard to hold your beer and reset you, which could take an agonizingly long time.

I heard something about that. Also I heard that the segmented memory was EVIL, or something. Although apparently unixes running on the platform used it to simulate the user/kernel divide.

And honestly, we all know that x86 is an awkward architecture at best, hampered by the need for obsessive backwards compatibility, and that without the huge binary footprint, ARM and RISC would have won.

Remember when Andrew Tanenbaum said that his issues with Linux's design were a moot point, because we'd all be running HURD on RISC machines by the year 2000? Have you noticed people in the Linux crowd saying that Wayland will kill X? You'd thing we'd have learned our lesson by now: Backwards compatibility trumps all.

Re: Microsoft will release a custom Debian Linux

#125

Post by d0lph »

baldfat wrote: post #122
d0lph wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Apple at least has not tried to strategically attack linux/OSS via rumors and lies a la halloween documents. But I certainly agree that the linux community on a whole should re-evaluate its position on MS. If you expect that to happen over night, you are a fool.

Once again that is Steve Ballmer. If this was a whole corporate belief it would have been true through the whole company and its policy and it wasn't. NOT defending the bad parts of MS but people treat MS as the evil empire when it was a divided HUGE company. Inside MS there were plenty of positive open source people and projects inside of MS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_free_and_open-sourc... I believe…

Even given all that MSFT has been more antagonistic to Linux in the past. Ballmer was not even CEO when the halloween docs we released, I find it difficult to believe, that Ballmer is the sole cause of MSFTs anti OSS positions.

TBH I agree with you on most points, but calling linux users who have mac hardware hypocrites is a stretch given MSFT's track record.

Re: Microsoft will release a custom Debian Linux

#126

Post by sixothree »

baldfat wrote: post #109
click170 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly the knife cuts both ways. Microsoft has a long way to go before they get the benefit of the doubt from me due to their decades of Embracing Extending and Extinguishing.

I might be wrong about you personally and I am speaking of the Linux Community as a whole. I still find it incredibly hypocritical of people's anti-Microsoft stance while they walk around with their Apple products. I seriously see more Macs at every Linux event then any other kind of computer. Most Anti-Microsoft really is anti-Steve Ballmer.

I am usually not surprised to find that they often use a text editor as their IDE or just run Windows in a VM.

Re: Microsoft will release a custom Debian Linux

#127

Post by anthk »

tempodox wrote: post #104

Linux has been the best friend of MS Windows for quite some time now. All the Linux users dual-boot into Windows each time they need some half-decent GUI for an app or whatever. Linux might be a good server host OS, but it failed spectacularly to conquer the desktop.

My Trisquel setup says otherwise. wmctrl -a + LXDE >>> Any Explorer.exe version.

Re: Microsoft will release a custom Debian Linux

#128

Post by anonbanker »

Someone1234 wrote: post #119
pjc50 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pondered this for a bit wondering what the Microsoft equivalent of systemd is, and decided it's probably svchost: it runs a bunch of services on your behalf in an opaque way, and occasionally needs killing when it eats all your memory. Microsoft already have binary logging that's much harder to read than text files. I'm not sure if there's an equivalent to process reaping, or whether that's handled by the kernel.

Microsoft's equivalent is called "wininit" and spawns services (inc. svchost shared process groups and services.exe), lsass ("Local Security Authority Subsystem Service"), lsm ("Local Session Manager"), winlogon ("Windows Login subsystem" for session 0), initialises the registry, creates temp if it doesn't exist, etc. During shutdown after winlogon terminates (session 0 terminates), wininit then sends ExitWindowsEx()…

I don't know about unix, but maybe we can all agree that Windows under the hood is very systemd-like.

Re: Microsoft will release a custom Debian Linux

#130

Post by cyphar »

pjc50 wrote: post #106
cyphar wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Distributions can have licenses. Most modern distributions are MIT licensed (meaning you can create derivative distributions under the conditions of the license). OpenSUSE is still GPLv2 and is one of the last ones (Debian switched to MIT recently IIRC).

What does that actually mean, though? It can't affect the software being distributed. Is it only the distro tools themselves?

The actual collection of software called the distribution. That's what is being licensed.
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