Need a raise, how to ask?

#1

Post by djmill » Thu, Mar 10, 2016, 3:09 PM UTC

This is probably a very simple question that a simple Google query can answer, but I'd like to get some opinions on the matter.

About me: - 3 year exp software engineer - 84k/year salary - Ruby on Rails, JS, CoffeeScript, MySQL, HTML/CSS (currently the UI guru..) - Oversee 2 folks on the US side (we also have offshore folks) and we all work under 1 App Architect - Company is based out of Boston - I live and work remotely outside of Boston.

The company has always been fast-paced. I work on everything for the front end. This means: 7 different Rails apps (internal & external), 5 different Rails engines, ~10 in-house built gems, and I also delegate work to 2 folks under me as a tech lead for a new project.

According to Payscale.com (including perks, etc): - Boston rankings: 38th percentile @ 84k/year - Where I live/work remotely: 75th percentile @ 84k/year

I continue to pick up more and more responsibilities, yet the 'cap' for raises is 10%. I'm at a point where I know I can find work that pays more, yet I do not have another offer. I'm currently interviewing with Google though, so maybe that gives me a leg-up?

Anyway, what merits do I have for a raise? Where I live/work vs. where the company is based, my ranking is drastically different. Yet, it'd still be cheaper for the company to give me a hefty raise rather than finding someone with my skill sets in Boston (RoR devs in Boston are super expensive and hard to find, so I feel like I've been taken advantage of).

How can I go about asking for a raise? My plan is to gather different estimates from different websites for both areas and then come up with a solid middle-ground for the pay that I'm looking for. Without another job offer on the table, it's hard to demand anything; however, I know that my company needs me more than I need them (not going into details here).

Just looking for some opinions and thanks in advance for any advice given here :)

Re: Need a raise, how to ask?

#2

Post by FroshKiller » Thu, Mar 10, 2016, 3:12 PM UTC

Why do you need a raise?

Re: Need a raise, how to ask?

#3

Post by djmill » Thu, Mar 10, 2016, 3:16 PM UTC

Also, just stating that if Google throws me an offer, I'm obviously going to take it... but I'm not banking on that.

This pay raise demand would be the latter if/else in the Google offer edge-case!

Re: Need a raise, how to ask?

#4

Post by djmill » Thu, Mar 10, 2016, 3:18 PM UTC

FroshKiller wrote: post #2

Why do you need a raise?

I feel as though I need a raise because my responsibilities have changed drastically since my last raise. I'm now managing people and leading a project.

On top of that, my pay has always been less than that of other folks in the industry doing the same work. These other folks that I've talked to also don't have to deal with the pain points of working with offshore folks in a timezone with a difference of 12 hours. I'm on meetings at 6AM and my day ends at 5PM if I'm lucky. Yet, I know people who do less work, for companies with 100% in-house teams that work 9 - 5.

Re: Need a raise, how to ask?

#5

Post by arielweisberg » Thu, Mar 10, 2016, 3:18 PM UTC

Get an outside offer from some place you are willing to work at. Either they match it or they don't it's all one to you. Frame it as you having to do what's right for you and that you can't afford to leave that kind of money on the table. Working careers are short and you will never get that money back if pass on it.

It's the truth and it's something any half way decent manager can understand. It's not personal it's just a typical business decision for both parties. Expect that they may not match immediately. They will try to get you to wait a year or till the next cycle. The response is that you don't want to wait or leave money on the table due to the time value of money and the risk you are shouldering. Either they concede, sweeten the pot, or pass.

If you do end up with future promises get it in writing signed by your manager. Read it and make sure there are no games.

I wouldn't bother with estimates or middle grounds. Where the rubber meets the road is what kind offer you can get somewhere else. You are asking for a pittance from them and for the most part unless it's a failing business they shouldn't care.

Re: Need a raise, how to ask?

#6

Post by arielweisberg » Thu, Mar 10, 2016, 3:19 PM UTC

FroshKiller wrote: post #2

Why do you need a raise?

That's a silly question? Is the utility of money in question?

Re: Need a raise, how to ask?

#7

Post by djmill » Thu, Mar 10, 2016, 3:20 PM UTC

arielweisberg wrote: post #5

Get an outside offer from some place you are willing to work at. Either they match it or they don't it's all one to you. Frame it as you having to do what's right for you and that you can't afford to leave that kind of money on the table. Working careers are short and you will never get that money back if pass on it. It's the truth and it's something any half way decent manager can understand. It's not personal it's…

Okay great, that makes sense. Thanks for the advice!

Re: Need a raise, how to ask?

#8

Post by otoburb » Thu, Mar 10, 2016, 3:25 PM UTC

arielweisberg wrote: post #6

FroshKiller wrote: post #2

Why do you need a raise?

That's a silly question? Is the utility of money in question?

Utility of money is probably assumed - the question is meant to force the OP to find credible reasons for a raise that would reduce any potential objections when he articulates his request to the employer.

Re: Need a raise, how to ask?

#9

Post by dudul » Thu, Mar 10, 2016, 3:29 PM UTC

arielweisberg wrote: post #5

Get an outside offer from some place you are willing to work at. Either they match it or they don't it's all one to you. Frame it as you having to do what's right for you and that you can't afford to leave that kind of money on the table. Working careers are short and you will never get that money back if pass on it. It's the truth and it's something any half way decent manager can understand. It's not personal it's…

Agree with the idea to get an offer first, and then try to negotiate. However, I would not put it as bluntly as "give me more money, or I go work there".

They may yield this time. Especially if you are an important member of the team with some exclusive knowledge (i.e. you're the only one who knows the codebase for component Foo, and if they lose you they are screwed). But, they will likely be bitter about it. Try to force you to share your knowledge in the next few months and kick you out.

Again, I agree that it makes perfect sense to you as an employee to maximize your income, it's just business. But a lot of business owners, especially in startups, may take it personally ("How dare he want to leave us? How about our mission of making the world a better place? He's only in it for the money ????!!!").

So, long story short, I would amend this advice with not disclosing that you have an other offer and not setting an ultimatum.

Re: Need a raise, how to ask?

#10

Post by djmill » Thu, Mar 10, 2016, 3:45 PM UTC

dudul wrote: post #9

arielweisberg wrote: post #5

Get an outside offer from some place you are willing to work at. Either they match it or they don't it's all one to you. Frame it as you having to do what's right for you and that you can't afford to leave that kind of money on the table. Working careers are short and you will never get that money back if pass on it. It's the truth and it's something any half way decent manager can understand. It's not personal it's…

Agree with the idea to get an offer first, and then try to negotiate. However, I would not put it as bluntly as "give me more money, or I go work there". They may yield this time. Especially if you are an important member of the team with some exclusive knowledge (i.e. you're the only one who knows the codebase for component Foo, and if they lose you they are screwed). But, they will likely be bitter about it. Try to…

Okay, very interesting... I like the way you think. Luckily, I built various components and the entire CSS layer (which gets very complex) is really only understood by me... which is a nice monopoly from time to time. But yeah, if I leave I know I'll be forced to continue doing the same work but also forced to educate the entire team, etc. on my knowledge.

But you're right, I don't want to make anything personal, it's purely a business and career growth decision on my end. I love the company and what they stand for, but I don't like feeling like I'm being taken advantage of by being underpaid for my skill sets.

After working here for a while, I've noticed that the interviewees are lacking in skill sets and we can't seem to gain or retain top talent... which also leads me to think I have a leg-up on this as if I leave, they're screwed in certain areas.