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The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

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Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#161

Post by germanier »

J_Darnley wrote: post #157
nunyabuizness wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, this CGP Grey video explains how a first-past-the-post voting system all-but-guarantees a two party system to emerge over time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo

Would you like to replace it with proportional representation? You thought a few day government shutdown was bad? Try 500 days.

Then how do you explain the missing government shutdowns in all the countries with proportional representation? Even in Belgium, where they had a long time without a new government after an election, government services were provided just fine.

Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#162

Post by alanwatts »

nickff wrote: post #54
md224 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just saying I wish we could have only organic results. Why should people with more money have more of a presence online? Money shouldn't be able to buy speech. The Internet should not be a place where those with more money get to cut the line in front of those with less. Let PageRank sort it out. Also, what's this about my example not holding weight because "information purity" doesn't exist? It's not about the i…

Money always buys speech; whether it is by allowing a columnist to write full time, affording the puchase of a computer to post on the internet, or giving someone the ability to travel to a public square. Using money to purchase a magazine, newspaper, television, radio, or online advertisement is just another way that money helps people express their views. In any case, I wouldn't be too worried about money changing…

"We just had a misunderstanding, I thought I lived in the U.S.A, the United States of America, and actually we live in the U.S.A, The United States of Advertising -- freedom of speech is guaranteed, if you've got the money!"

-Bill Hicks on being censored by CBS

Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#163

Post by alanwatts »

nickff wrote: post #114
devishard wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you kidding me? Of the major companies out there, almost all of them made money from bad products. McDonald's food is so unhealthy it makes you ill almost immediately when it's even edible. Comcast is hated almost universally for their crap internet and crapper customer service. Fox News makes money by actively deceiving their customers. These aren't exceptions to the rule: these are the rule . They're leaders in…

I disagree with you on every point here. McDonalds provides a consistent array of food and beverages across many countries, and many people (especially children) enjoy the experience in their restaurant. Comcast is often the only provider of Internet services, and in other instances provides faster or cheaper service than their competitors. Fox News is like every other news channel, in that it informs their viewers w…

What does make a product bad then?

Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#164

Post by [deleted] »

diskcat wrote: post #117
devishard wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you kidding me? Of the major companies out there, almost all of them made money from bad products. McDonald's food is so unhealthy it makes you ill almost immediately when it's even edible. Comcast is hated almost universally for their crap internet and crapper customer service. Fox News makes money by actively deceiving their customers. These aren't exceptions to the rule: these are the rule . They're leaders in…

If these things are so bad, why do people consume them? Is everybody else but you so stupid as to be consuming these obviously 'bad' products? Just because you think something is bad, doesn't mean it is bad. I would have no trouble selling something you think is the 'worst shit in the known universe' as long as everybody else thinks it's pretty good.

[deleted]

Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#165

Post by alanwatts »

Mindless2112 wrote: post #47

Google doesn't need to use search results to manipulate voting behavior -- they have Google Now. Google Now currently displays cards to remind people to vote on voting day. Maybe it just happens to be more likely to show up for people that have been profiled as likely to vote for Google's favored candidate.

I got a card notification the other day about Hillary winning in some state and I thought to myself, why the hell am I seeing this?

Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#166

Post by mgraczyk »

WalterGR wrote: post #152
pdehaye wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the original PageRank paper. Page and Brin themselves acknowledge that (while they were still academics): [L]ess blatant bias are likely to be tolerated by the market. For example, a search engine could add a small factor to search results from "friendly" companies, and subtract a factor from results from competitors. This type of bias is very difficult to detect but could still have a significant effect on the…

For example, a search engine could add a small factor to search results from "friendly" companies, and subtract a factor from results from competitors. Google absolutely does this - for example, to a site that I own. So it's not just theory: Google has put it into practice.

Unless you're talking about AdWords, it is not possible to pay Google in any way to improve the ranking of your site.

Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#167

Post by leereeves »

majewsky wrote: post #159
leereeves wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The BBC is sponsored by a licence fee collected from British people, whether they want to pay for the BBC or not. Similarly, if the government pays for a search engine, they'll be paying with taxes taken from us anyway.

Yeah, so?

So what's better about paying via taxes instead of paying directly?

Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#168

Post by majewsky »

jbclements wrote: post #131

I'm really astonished to find only a handful of references to DuckDuckGo in this discussion. I've been using it exclusively for about 2 years now, and had no problems at all. Perhaps I just don't know what I'm missing ... like mind control!

People using Google most likely "had no problems at all" either.

Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#169

Post by forgottenpass »

J_Darnley wrote: post #157
nunyabuizness wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, this CGP Grey video explains how a first-past-the-post voting system all-but-guarantees a two party system to emerge over time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo

Would you like to replace it with proportional representation? You thought a few day government shutdown was bad? Try 500 days.

You think it is two party representation to blame for the state of the U.S. legislature?

It's just as easy to blame the fact the smallest minority party in either chamber still has near-majority numbers. They're not incentivized to compromise the way a party that knows they'll never get more than 10% of seats would.

And government shutdowns as a result of legislative gridlock across the world aren't even correlated with a more-than-two party legislature.

Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#170

Post by kazinator »

The internet, in fact, provides the best support ever for closing your mind to anything that doesn't align with your world view. You just have to google for pages that confirm your beliefs, finding sites and forums filled with people who think like you do. Then you can deceive yourself into believing that your views actually have a large support. ("Pretty much everyone I know online on every site I go believes it!")

The upshot is that "subtle influence" is not going to work on those who are crudely entrenching themselves into some camp or other. For instance, you're not going to "subtly influence" some denier into accepting human-caused global warming. Not as long as he can find plenty of others and keep believing that his social circle is an unbiased sample of the population.

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