That's really interesting I mean how could AlphaGo beats on this time. hah
AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5
201–210 of 576 posts
Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5
#202Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5
#203Someone somewhere asked why a lot of people in the Go community is taking this in a somewhat hard way, here is my hypothesis: Go, unlike Chess, has deep mytho attached to it. Throughout the history of many Asian countries it's seen as the ultimate abstract strategy game that deeply relies on players' intuition, personality, worldview. The best players are not described as "smart", they are described as "wise". I thin…
> turns Go into a simple game of mathematics
This can be claimed to be true when we understand how deep neural networks mathematically.
Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
Actually this AI kind of confirms these myths, since its basis are not in mathematics but in neural networks. While it could be argued to be just math, so is the brain, but that's besides the point. The point is, even the programmers have no idea what the AI is thinking. The way it picks moves is very similar to how top professionals do. Intuition is reduced to memories stored vaguely as neural connections.
I fear this is an overly mystical misinterpretation of neural nets. (Standard feed-forward) neural nets are layers of non-linear feature transformations. They take inputs and at each step transform those inputs into a more compact representation, distilling the inputs into their most important factors (and throwing away unimportant factors). So the most likely explanation is that policy/value nets in AlphaGo have lea…
Is that really different to what humans do, though?
Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5
#205Someone somewhere asked why a lot of people in the Go community is taking this in a somewhat hard way, here is my hypothesis: Go, unlike Chess, has deep mytho attached to it. Throughout the history of many Asian countries it's seen as the ultimate abstract strategy game that deeply relies on players' intuition, personality, worldview. The best players are not described as "smart", they are described as "wise". I thin…
Now go read "The Player of Games", by Iain M. Banks, to see that idea taken to extremes.
Of course, the title of that book is delightfully ambiguous as to which game and which player it is referring to.
Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5
#206Someone somewhere asked why a lot of people in the Go community is taking this in a somewhat hard way, here is my hypothesis: Go, unlike Chess, has deep mytho attached to it. Throughout the history of many Asian countries it's seen as the ultimate abstract strategy game that deeply relies on players' intuition, personality, worldview. The best players are not described as "smart", they are described as "wise". I thin…
> Now imagine the winning author of the next Hugo Award turns out to be an AI, how unsettling would that be.
I think that would be pretty awesome and amazing, to be honest.
Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5
#207What I find fascinating - and I guess this really highlights that I have no idea whatsoever how AlphaGo works - is that at the start of game 2, AlphaGo plays P4, then Lee Sedol plays D16. To a layman, this looks like it would be a very, very common opening. Moreover, it's symmetrical - I'm not sure how that affects things, but my naive intuition is that it makes the game state less complex. Nonetheless, AlphaGo takes…
My guess is it's doing the same thing it does every move: look at the state of the board and calculate the next move.
A person might memorize standard openings and play them by rote. The computer _could_ do that, but it would just be a computational short cut. In a sense, the machine is re-discovering the classic opening.
Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5
#208http://alphagochat.herokuapp.com
Slack channel for discussion if anyone's interested. We're using it for commentary while the games go on. Was created by AGA people.
Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5
#209Wasn't reading the whole thread, but was it possible for Lee Sedol to play against the final AlphaGo before? Although AlphaGo seems to be a huge achievement I would find the lack of training before a bit unfair as AlphaGo was probably able to play lots of Games from Sedol before.
Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5
#210Someone somewhere asked why a lot of people in the Go community is taking this in a somewhat hard way, here is my hypothesis: Go, unlike Chess, has deep mytho attached to it. Throughout the history of many Asian countries it's seen as the ultimate abstract strategy game that deeply relies on players' intuition, personality, worldview. The best players are not described as "smart", they are described as "wise". I thin…
> turns Go into a simple game of mathematics This can be claimed to be true when we understand how deep neural networks mathematically.
Even though we do not have a complete understanding of exactly how the networks work, what is the function that they are minimizing but what we do know is that it is a mathematical function i.e. it has been mathematically modeled. So, I think it is safe to say that it does turn it into a game of mathematics.