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AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5

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Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5

#61
post #55

Who was the GO professional commentator? He was consistently predicting the moves of both Sedol and alphago. I was extremely impressed.

Michael Redmond, 9p

Closing in on nearly 600 career championship wins.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Redmond_%28Go_player%2...

http://gobase.org/information/players/?pp=Michael%20Redmond

Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5

#62

This game was largely played extremely well by both sides. There were a a few peculiar-seeming moves made by AlphaGo that the commentator found very atypical. These moves ended up playing a very important role in the end game. I should also say that it's somewhat clear that Sedol made one suboptimal move, and AlphaGo capitalized on it. Interestingly, the English commentator made the same mistake as he was predicting…

> There were a a few peculiar-seeming moves made by AlphaGo that the commentator found very atypical. Myungwan Kim 9-dan professional (comments on match #1): "She knows everything [...] Unthinkable move for human [...] AlphaGo plays like the god of go" https://youtu.be/6ZugVil2v4w?t=5054

I wonder how long before humans start learning from AlphaGo!

I want to see AlphaGo vs AlphaGo :-)

Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5

#63
post #25

I sense a change in the announcer's attitude towards AlphaGo. Yesterday there were a few strange moves from AlphaGo that were called mistakes; today, similar moves were called "interesting".

fun fact: when TD-Gammon hit the backgammon scene in the 90's, it didn't just defeat the top level human pros, it shattered the whole metagame and changed how humans play the game. It could be that human vs human go will look very different in the future due to what AlphaGo has learned and can teach us.

Can you recommend any reading about this that’s approachable for someone who has only a shallow understanding of the game?

Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5

#64
post #25

I sense a change in the announcer's attitude towards AlphaGo. Yesterday there were a few strange moves from AlphaGo that were called mistakes; today, similar moves were called "interesting".

AlphaGo maximises the probability of winning, and not the margin by which it does. So those "mistakes" yesterday turned out to be fortifying moves because AlphaGo was confident of a win. And similarly today the weird moves were interesting because they perhaps indicated that AlphaGo thought it was ahead.

Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5

#65
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people in the Go community wants to see AlphaGo play against the top ranked player. Otherwise I hope they'd at the very least release it as an AI for people to play against.

I thought Lee Sedol was the top ranked player?

Even if he is now, there is a probability that people will learn how to beat AlphaGo.

In a sense this is unfair: alphaGo was trained with a lot of human data, but AFAIK Lee Sedol is playing AI for the first time.

Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5

#66
post #49

I find it very interesting that to a layperson, the idea of a computer being able to beat a human at a logic game is pretty much expected and uninteresting. You try and share this story with a non-technical person and they will likely say "Well, duh..it's a computer".

I encountered this many times over the past couple of days haha. I then have to explain that previous AIs, like those in chess largely used brute force computation to simulate each move, while these AIs "actually learn, similar to our brain". Probably not the most scientific explanation, but I feel your sentiment.

Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5

#67
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn't you allow that? Surely the human thinks in the computer's time.

So that the human has a chance... Increasing the human time is not an option, since no one wants to watch 8 hour games, and fatigue could also come into play, so the only real option for a winning chance is reducing computer time/power

> Increasing the human time is not an option, since no one wants to watch 8 hour games

FWIW regular tournament Go games go up to 6 hours, and title games can take more than 16h and span over two days.

Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5

#68
post #11

Lee Sedol seemed to be doing well before he went into extra time (as far as I could follow from the commentators). How is it ensured that this is a fair game given the time constraints? I'm guessing adding more computing power to the AlphaGo program should definitely help it in this regard.

Maybe the budget should be energy rather than time?

Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5

#69
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There were a a few peculiar-seeming moves made by AlphaGo that the commentator found very atypical. Myungwan Kim 9-dan professional (comments on match #1): "She knows everything [...] Unthinkable move for human [...] AlphaGo plays like the god of go" https://youtu.be/6ZugVil2v4w?t=5054

I wonder how long before humans start learning from AlphaGo! I want to see AlphaGo vs AlphaGo :-)

AlphaGo has already played millions of games against AlphaGo during the reinforcement learning stage.

Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5

#70
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These moves ended up playing a very important role in the end game. Does this mean AlphaGo was playing at a higher level or is it just a coincident?

The 9p commentator at the AGA channel said you should judge genius versus madness on whether alphago won. And it did.

The "mad" moves could also be throwing the human off. I wonder how Sedol would fare given a year or so of practice against AlphaGo.
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