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Business School is a Joke

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Re: Business School is a Joke

#51
post #11

The stuff you learn in business is more supplemental material for the stuff you learn in the more hard sciences like engineering. You may have built the best product, but without marketing, accounting, and operations, the product still might not succeed in the market. With that said, I think business school courses should be taken on the side to the primary engineering courses as that provides the most well rounded e…

I agree that it is somewhat useful to have these ancillary classes such as marketing, finance which would complement well with a degree in engineering i.e. computer science, materials science, biomedical etc.

Re: Business School is a Joke

#52
post #2

For a different point of view. Coming from an engineering background, I sat in on an entrepreneurship class at UChicago Booth and I was totally blown away. The angle was completely different. The previous class the students were all given the details about hypothetical ventures with some background on the market and they were asked to say whether they would invest or not invest should such a proposal cross their desk…

I wonder though, why is entrepreneurship devoted to a single class? Doesn't that kind of reinforce the idea that most of business school is just training for middle/upper management in established companies?

Re: Business School is a Joke

#53
post #47
post #43

I dated a finance major (in the undergrad business school) for two years when I was at Georgetown. My impression of her classes was the same - that they were training, not education, and intellectually void. That said, she's now a successful analyst at Merrill, so she must have gotten something out of it.

Depends what you mean by "something," I suppose. Pedigree and pathway, sure. Knowledge and real training? That's the issue being discussed here.

Pedigree and pathway would get her hired, but not make her successful. She got 5/5 ratings in her recent reviews.

Re: Business School is a Joke

#54
post #23

An undergraduate degree in this country teaches you how to become a worker bee. If you like being a worker bee, getting a decent(?) salary, taking 2 weeks and then later in life maybe 6 weeks vacation, by all means study business, marketing, etc. Otherwise, get educated. "Self education is, I firmly believe, the only kid of education there is." -Isaac Asimov If only we could have a few more people every year become f…

Didn't Asimov do an advanced degree in chemistry?

Yes he did. Medicine, law, engineering, mathematics, etc., most people will need to go to college and graduate programs. Tough to self-educate in those areas.

Re: Business School is a Joke

#55
Background : I started a business and managed to build it out with no formal education at all.

I often wonder whether formal education in business would have helped me, or hindered me.

I'm certain the structured information contained in a structured business course would have been useful.

At the same time, when I was starting out, I did a lot of things that no reasonable educational institution would advocate just to get through the month and make payday. During all of this, I was reading and learning as fast as I could about all of the numerous knowledge gaps I began to realise I had, as I came up against various walls.

After years of experience in running a business, when I read books about business/sales/marketing/economics, it's far easier to process and understand the theory.

I think any kind of education about business is valuable, but I also think it's 10 times more valuable if you have some kind of real-life experience to which you can map the theory.

Re: Business School is a Joke

#56
Ha! He makes some good points but he is way wrong about math and econ classes being better than business classes. It is the same bullshit. Professors are never right for the job they are doing especially in introductory courses designed to lay the foundation. We spend 50 minutes covering definitions and examples that can be covered in less than 20 and we spend 50 minutes because professors are lazy and the curriculum is divided into 50 minutes for no apparent reason whatsoever.

Re: Business School is a Joke

#57
Currently a MBA student at Stanford Graduate School of Business, I'm also bootstrapping a startup with two CS graduate students and a seasoned designer. As an entrepreneur, I can definitely speak for the benefits that Stanford GSB provides: (1) The Stanford and Stanford GSB networks are both phenomenal. Alumni are very accessible and connected with the school. Classmates are highly collaborative and bring contacts from almost every industry you can think of and want to learn about. To start a business, access to relevant networks is critical and GSB provides that. (2) Entrepreneurship classes taught by experienced industry veterans. Some of my favorite classes are taught by serial entrepreneurs, famous venture capitalists, or legendary executives including Eric Schmidt, Andy Grove, Mark Leslie, Andy Rachleff, Audrey MacLean, Mike Lyons, Joe Peterson, and Harold Irving Grousbeck, among many others. (3) The roster of speakers that come to speak both at GSB and other parts of Stanford is extremely useful for entrepreneurs. Classes and clubs invite speakers including Ron Conway, Peter Thiel, Jack Dorsey (founder of Twitter), Shawn Fanning (founder of Napster), Chad Hurley (founder of Youtube), Aaron Patzer (founder of Mint.com), Mark Pincus (founder of Zynga), and many others. STVP (stvp.stanford.edu) and ETL (etl.stanford.edu) are two other great resources. As a student, you can even take the initiative as a club leader to approach some of the most successful people in the valley to come speak. (4) Stanford GSB has a Center for Entrepreneurial Studies which organizes seasoned entrepreneurs, angels and venture investors to hold 1:1 free advisory sessions with entrepreneurial students to discuss their startup ideas and help students build the network. I've personally found them very valuable. (5) Many successful alumni who are entrepreneurs, active angels, or venture investors often hold intimate networking events, such as as small group dinners, to meet with entrepreneurial students. It's another way to network and receive feedback on your startup idea! (6) The school also offers classes in which students across business school, engineering school and other schools can work in a team on a startup idea together. Some of these class projects continued as startups after the class.

Overall, the best value is the access to investor, entrepreneur and industry networks, the ability to meet other entrepreneurial students, and to receive advice from some of the best entrepreneurs in the industry.

Re: Business School is a Joke

#58
post #57

Currently a MBA student at Stanford Graduate School of Business, I'm also bootstrapping a startup with two CS graduate students and a seasoned designer. As an entrepreneur, I can definitely speak for the benefits that Stanford GSB provides: (1) The Stanford and Stanford GSB networks are both phenomenal. Alumni are very accessible and connected with the school. Classmates are highly collaborative and bring contacts fr…

Seriously? Did you even read TFA? The guy is saying that undergrad business majors are asinine. Probably true even at Stanford. What this has do with with a nameroll of 300 rich people you're paying $100k a year to rub shoulders with, I haven't a clue.

Re: Business School is a Joke

#59
post #53
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends what you mean by "something," I suppose. Pedigree and pathway, sure. Knowledge and real training? That's the issue being discussed here.

Pedigree and pathway would get her hired, but not make her successful. She got 5/5 ratings in her recent reviews.

This is a silly back and forth until you can point at the "something" she got from b-school aside from pathway and pedigree. Again, that's what's being discussed. It's certainly possible that the degree got her the job, yet her own natural intelligence, undergrad experience, or professional experience led to her success. And /not/ the b-school curriculum.

Re: Business School is a Joke

#60
I thought I would chime in, since I think my experience is slightly unique.

I enrolled in undergrad at Boston University as a Computer Systems and Physics major. After two horrible years of all-nighters and poor grades, I came to the realization that I didn't even like the jobs I would be lined up for (this was shortly after the dot com bubble burst) or the people I was going to be working with.

So I left the major and completed my degree from tiny Ithaca College as an Integrated Marketing Communications major.

Now, after a few years in the professional world as an ad exec, I'm pursuing my MBA from Boston College.

So coming from a mix engineer/marketing background, I can say that business school as a whole plays it far too safe. They dumb down the math requirements, and they don't push the "soft skills" enough either. Our "soft skills" class was treated pretty universally as a joke, and yet I didn't leave my corporate finance class feeling any more knowledgeable in that area either.

After a recent trip to Palo Alto, I have been dreaming about the opportunities that would be in front of me if I had pursued my MBA at Stanford, instead of taking the easy way out to Boston College. But in reality, I find the true value in b-school to be from your fellow classmates, network of alumni, and time you spend actually thinking about business.

Let me elaborate a little on that last point. This is the first time in my (short) career I've been able to read articles, discuss them with professors, and spend time critiquing existing business models. While this time spent won't show up on any transcripts, I think it will be invaluable to my future prospects.

I'll cut this comment short - but I encourage all to evaluate both the student body and the network of alumni before choosing a b-school. These are easily the two strongest aspects of the education you will take away afterwards.

all the best, jeff vincent

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