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The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

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Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#121

Post by nsxwolf »

ryandetzel wrote: post #74
nsxwolf wrote: post #52

Something like this recently disturbed me. Mitt Romney published a tweet storm a few days ago making his case against Donald Trump. They all showed up in my feed - I don't follow Romney, and the tweets weren't marked as sponsored, but somehow Twitter decided I should be seeing them anyway. I'd hate to think Twitter decided it was for the public good that everyone read what Romney had to say about Trump.

It's a recommendation engine, it's not Twitter decided everyone should read it. Obviously you read, follow, consume content related to this so the algorithm decided you'd probably like Romney's tweets too (because they were super popular)

Why doesn't this recommendation engine ever show me anyone else's tweets? Why only Romney, and why now?

Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#122

Post by colordrops »

api wrote: post #82
justsaysmthng wrote: post #65

I remember the '90s, when the Internet as we know it was just a baby... The enthusiasm we all shared for it. Of a better future. Of true democracy in the world. Of free people, free minds. The Internet will be the cure for all the social ills that humanity has experienced in the past. People will trade and talk with each other and that's how we can have peace on Earth! We will be able to discuss, collaborate, create.…

The big error of the 90s digital utopians was over-estimating how much the Internet would change society and under-estimating how much society would change the Internet.

The internet and society are intertwined in a fractal feedback loop, to the point where they are almost one in the same now.

Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#123

Post by treebeard901 »

diskcat wrote: post #117
devishard wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you kidding me? Of the major companies out there, almost all of them made money from bad products. McDonald's food is so unhealthy it makes you ill almost immediately when it's even edible. Comcast is hated almost universally for their crap internet and crapper customer service. Fox News makes money by actively deceiving their customers. These aren't exceptions to the rule: these are the rule . They're leaders in…

If these things are so bad, why do people consume them? Is everybody else but you so stupid as to be consuming these obviously 'bad' products? Just because you think something is bad, doesn't mean it is bad. I would have no trouble selling something you think is the 'worst shit in the known universe' as long as everybody else thinks it's pretty good.

You raise an interesting point. Do people consume things they know are bad because they want to or because they are manipulated to?

Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#124

Post by clouddrover »

md224 wrote: post #9

I have made this case before, but I will make it again. The Internet is the largest information system in the world, and Google is the primary portal into that information system. Google's "organic" results are accompanied by AdWords results, which are based on a mixture of bid price and relevance. These ads are marked with a small "Ad" label that many people miss, and even those who know they're ads can't really "un…

> and Google is the primary portal into that information system.

I don't see that you've got no choice but Google. The easy workaround is to switch to another search engine like DuckDuckGo.

Wikipedia is said to be exploring a search engine project so that may become another option: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/12/wikipedia_grant_buil...

Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#125

Post by clouddrover »

daodedickinson wrote: post #75
hellbanner wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I've found Google to be frustratingly difficult to search in recent years. I can't find articles & essays that I remember fondly because the namespace is so polluted with Great SEO.

Have you fond a better search engine? I keep failing to find what I need on DuckDuckGo or it's kin and having to go onto Google, where I find what I was looking for. Of course, one can always suggest that I am just better attuned to Google (I have Google Fu from long experience with Google and wrongfully expect DuckDuckGo Fu to be the same skill and have not developed DuckDuckGo Fu).

> I keep failing to find what I need on DuckDuckGo or it's kin and having to go onto Google

What's an example of a search that fails to find what you need?

Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#126

Post by mistermann »

devishard wrote: post #110
nickff wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that one product which seems to be a placebo may have made some money does not disprove my point; I never said it was completely impossible to make money by selling a bad product, just that it is vanishingly unlikely. If you think that selling diluted ingredients in wax is an easy way to make money, please go ahead and try your hand at it. My position is that advertising a bad product is a very bad bet; the…

Are you kidding me? Of the major companies out there, almost all of them made money from bad products. McDonald's food is so unhealthy it makes you ill almost immediately when it's even edible. Comcast is hated almost universally for their crap internet and crapper customer service. Fox News makes money by actively deceiving their customers. These aren't exceptions to the rule: these are the rule . They're leaders in…

> McDonald's food is so unhealthy it makes you ill almost immediately when it's even edible.

Oh please, I had a Big Mac meal for lunch today, delicious!

Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#127

Post by mistermann »

petra wrote: post #109
nostrademons wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It sucks that the idea of funding Google via taxes is anathema to so many because people fear government influence" That wouldn't fix the problem. Ultimately, somebody has to decide & implement what goes into the ranking algorithm that determines the search results that people see. That person has significant power, and will be both decried by intellectuals who feel like they're on the losing edge of the power dynam…

It's at least theoretically possibly to configure the search engine to their liking, or the search algorithm would be open-source and vetted democratically. So yes, you cannot avoid power, but you can distribute it or shine a light on it.

I've never heard of this idea before, it's actually very interesting.

Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#128

Post by Sven7 »

md224 wrote: post #9

I have made this case before, but I will make it again. The Internet is the largest information system in the world, and Google is the primary portal into that information system. Google's "organic" results are accompanied by AdWords results, which are based on a mixture of bid price and relevance. These ads are marked with a small "Ad" label that many people miss, and even those who know they're ads can't really "un…

I agree with you. Let's just give thanks that Larry Page doesn't run Wikipedia. At this point Google is way past the point of no return. They are more bothered about empire defense than information.

Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#129

Post by ocdtrekkie »

smitherfield wrote: post #27
manachar wrote: post #5

This read like anti-Google FUD. The basic argument is search engine rank determines trustworthiness of a source. This influences people's opinions on politics, what they buy, what they think, etc. This is absolutely true, and the core of their research (it seems). But then it goes into FUD territory when talking about Google backing Hillary. Hillary and Trump have received the lion's share of attention in media, soci…

(Disclaimer: I voted for Bernie Sanders in the Massachusetts primary). I agree; the Hillary portion of it seemed like a bit of a silly conspiracy theory to me. They'd still need to provide evidence rather than innuendo, but it'd be more believable (albeit attract fewer HN upvotes) if the article had claimed Google has a pro-Bernie bias, since he's the candidate who likely has the most support amongst Google employees…

It's worth pointing out that the positions of a company's executives and financial staff aren't necessarily the position of a company's line employees or engineers. Sanders is much less supportive of big business in government. And Google has put a LOT of money into government.

Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#130

Post by spyder »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #119
md224 wrote: post #9

I have made this case before, but I will make it again. The Internet is the largest information system in the world, and Google is the primary portal into that information system. Google's "organic" results are accompanied by AdWords results, which are based on a mixture of bid price and relevance. These ads are marked with a small "Ad" label that many people miss, and even those who know they're ads can't really "un…

The ads you see for a given search are highly likely to be profitable (since it is so easy to track and manage). That means people are clicking on those links, and a reasonable fraction of those clicks are being converted. From this, I would like to posit that the profitability of an ad is directly related to the product or service's relevance/value to the user (barring deceptive advertising). Lets also assume that p…

Just because a product or service is profitable it doesn't mean it's a good product or it's not a scam, and in the case of Google results the companies can make the honest reviews of the product rank lower or basically hide them in the second page of results with their paid ads, which is making it harder for the consumers to figure out the real quality of the product before buying. Of course not every organic result is honest but ads can make it worse.
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