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The $555,000 Student-Loan Burden

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Re: The $555,000 Student-Loan Burden

#21

She's a doctor. Sure, it's a lot of money, but it sounds manageable on a typical doctor's salary.

The problem with that statement is that established doctors make a lot of money. Interns and residents who are just starting out don't. Half a million in debt doesn't sound so bad if you can count on a $200,000 salary. Half a million in debt is terrifying when you only make ~$40,000 a year for the next four to eight years depending on your chosen specialty.

Re: The $555,000 Student-Loan Burden

#22
post #16

Part of the problems is that people who take out these loans are the least educated in personal finance and how to manage money. Unless you have a good parent or counselor guidance behind you, it is very easy to make mistakes that can cost you alot down the road. Maybe it should be a requirement as part of high school curriculum to teach students about personal finance.

It is, at least in the state of Utah. I had to take a class called Financial Literacy.

It wasn't a bad class (and nicely enough my CS teacher happened to teach it, also), but unfortunately I think it's worse off than math classes as far as getting people to care and thus really remember it for later.

Re: The $555,000 Student-Loan Burden

#23

This is making me think twice about taking out student loans to go back and get a BS next spring. I truly doubt that I would be able to, cognitively, work and study at the same time - one of the two would suffer.

You don't need to go to university to study. In fact, if you're actually motivated to learn, it's almost as likely to get in the way. There are certainly some potentially good reasons for going to university, but if you don't have your goals firmly aligned with such reasons, you'll just waste your time and money.

So--what are your goals? And how do loans and a BS degree program get you to them?

Re: The $555,000 Student-Loan Burden

#24

I can't even imagine paying that kind of money for an education. To make that up would take most of your career for most people when one of the points of an education is to increase your average salary over not having bothered. If the delta between those two doesn't work out for most of your career, you may as well not bother. The interesting bit is that, at least in the U.S., one can go to decent schools relatively…

One issue here is though, if you really want to be a doctor, you need this education, you can't just start as an assistant/ secretary or hospital cleaner and work your way up.

Whereas say a career as a programmer, there are plenty of back doors and ways to learn and move up without having to get the formal education. There's still the reason to get that education but I can honestly say if I don't end up making back the difference on what I spent on it during my working lifetime it won't worry me at all.

Re: The $555,000 Student-Loan Burden

#25

She's a doctor. Sure, it's a lot of money, but it sounds manageable on a typical doctor's salary.

The problem with that statement is that established doctors make a lot of money. Interns and residents who are just starting out don't. Half a million in debt doesn't sound so bad if you can count on a $200,000 salary. Half a million in debt is terrifying when you only make ~$40,000 a year for the next four to eight years depending on your chosen specialty.

I have an issue with this kind of thing, the kind of elitism in some fields. Say someone getting education to become a doctor, after their years of study it seems that they come out on an initial low wage and an you should be glad were going you a chance kind of attitude.

Correct me if I'm wrong, it's just the perception I have seemed to get about some fields from things I have read.

Re: The $555,000 Student-Loan Burden

#26

This is what happens when the government interferes with the free market! The supply of virtually unlimited, guaranteed federal loans has created a moral hazard. Loan companies don't care to hand out risky loans because they have the backing of the federal government. Since students have access to so much "free" money, they are entering colleges in droves, effectively bidding up tuition prices for the rest of us. Wit…

Given a harmful, self-reinforcing cycle produced by multiple independent actors making (fairly predictable) decisions, I'm curious why you think it's correct to single out a particular part of the cycle as being the problem.

At any link in the chain, someone could have said "this is a bad idea" and stopped--but instead they do what's in their own (short-term) best interest, and everyone loses.

Re: The $555,000 Student-Loan Burden

#27
post #22
post #16

Part of the problems is that people who take out these loans are the least educated in personal finance and how to manage money. Unless you have a good parent or counselor guidance behind you, it is very easy to make mistakes that can cost you alot down the road. Maybe it should be a requirement as part of high school curriculum to teach students about personal finance.

It is, at least in the state of Utah. I had to take a class called Financial Literacy. It wasn't a bad class (and nicely enough my CS teacher happened to teach it, also), but unfortunately I think it's worse off than math classes as far as getting people to care and thus really remember it for later.

That is sad, because you think a personal finance if taught right would be the most interesting class in school for students. I would think a teacher would only have tell a student, if you want to be rich this is the only class that matters.

Re: The $555,000 Student-Loan Burden

#28

This is making me think twice about taking out student loans to go back and get a BS next spring. I truly doubt that I would be able to, cognitively, work and study at the same time - one of the two would suffer.

I've thought about using student loans as a cheap business loan if the economy tanks bad enough that I lose my stable job. I sign up for a masters, get loans to live on (with few questions asked), and work 50/50 on school & business. Worst case is that I come out with a failed startup and a masters degree. And loans, but meh...

Re: The $555,000 Student-Loan Burden

#29

This is making me think twice about taking out student loans to go back and get a BS next spring. I truly doubt that I would be able to, cognitively, work and study at the same time - one of the two would suffer.

You don't need to go to university to study. In fact, if you're actually motivated to learn, it's almost as likely to get in the way. There are certainly some potentially good reasons for going to university, but if you don't have your goals firmly aligned with such reasons, you'll just waste your time and money. So--what are your goals? And how do loans and a BS degree program get you to them?

My goals? To eventually get into more AI / statistics / datamining (currently I do primarily UI development) / graph analysis.

I've tried to teach myself the math involved, but I've come to the conclusion that to really learn it I'll need courses in it. It's mainly the math, I think, that I'll have "trouble" (actually have to study) with - not the programming.

Without loans, I'd have to work full time to support myself. This would cause my performance at school to suffer, unless I took a barista/service type job. Which I'm not sure I could support myself with (to be honest, I don't know how the baristas here in NYC do support themselves with it). I've been out of the service industry since my first go-around at college, and have no desire to return whatsoever.

With loans, I'll be able to concentrate fully on the work involved, and perhaps have time left over to build a few cool things that I don't have time for now.

A BS degree program will get me the background in maths (Bayesian theory, calculus, linear algebra, statistics) and advanced computer science (ANNs, GAs, compiler design) that will get me to the place I really want to be: advanced/next-gen datamining and knowledge systems. I'd really like to be working on how to analyze how people connect and predict trends based upon it. (Yes, I understand that many privacy people, including myself, have issues with such a thing. It's something I'm fascinated with, but have moral qualms about implementing. Also, lack of experience/know-how.)

Re: The $555,000 Student-Loan Burden

#30
post #9

This is making me think twice about taking out student loans to go back and get a BS next spring. I truly doubt that I would be able to, cognitively, work and study at the same time - one of the two would suffer.

Go to another country/state where education is a significantly cheaper? Europe maybe?

If only I were eligible for dual citizen status (and thus decreased education costs) in any of the countries my family originated from. Unfortunately, said lineage is much too far back (3-9 generations) to make any dual citizenship claims in any of the countries (UK, Netherlands, Lithuania). If any of you know the opposite to be true about that, please let me know.
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