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paulgraham.com

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Re: Stuff

#91

Post by mgrouchy »

This is so funny because I was talking to my girlfriend about this recently. We recently moved from a 700 sqft condo to a 1700 sqft house and I look around and I say "why do we need all this crap" I mean do we really need that second couch or extra desk, its really just filling the space.

I honestly look at most of the stuff we have bought and thing that it was not only a horrible waste of money but a burden. We talk about possibly moving around a bit basically move where we can both work and It keeps coming back to what do you do with the stuff.

This is terrible. We aren't rich but we are not poor either, but we are kind of in a spot where we are kind of like how can we move to another country or province(we are in Canada) when we have all this stuff.

I think in the long run if you are interested in having some freedom owning less stuff is the way to go. I know thats the direction I am know moving in.

Re: Stuff

#92

Post by andymism »

oconnore wrote: post #84

I agree to being minimalist, with the notable exception of kitchen supplies. It's near impossible to cook interesting food without cabinets full of spices, various sized pots and pans, utensils of all shapes, and in some cases, specialty items like blenders, strainers, etc. Add to that a pantry full of food staples, and a full refrigerator, and suddenly moving anywhere is a painful process. Life is too short to live…

I love to cook. My kitchen cabinets are stuffed with all sorts of kitchen appliances, pots and pans, and utensils. But even when cooking the most elaborate meals for up to 16 guests, I've found that I only use 5 or 6 tools out of my large (and expensive) arsenal.

I've actually moved most of my pots and pans into my outdoor storage. The ones I'll need, I'll go grab and keep inside, but after another 6 months, the rest will be up for sale on ebay--and there'll be a lot of them.

Re: Stuff

#93

Post by catch404 »

ledger123 wrote: post #5
swombat wrote: post #2

(July 2007)

But I am still happy to read it again. I think we need to constantly remind ourselves with advice like this. I am going to print this essay now and give copies to my wife and kids.

I re-read it a few days ago and thought I'd see what discussion the essay had. Was surprised to find no mention on searchyc.com. Was very surprised to see it posted today :)

Re: Stuff

#94

Post by Devilboy »

rbreve wrote: post #88
fnid2 wrote: post #76

I have too much stuff. Most people in America do. In fact, the poorer people are, the more stuff they seem to have. Hardly anyone is so poor that they can't afford a front yard full of old cars. Wow, Paul, you really don't understand what it is like to be poor. The poor people don't have a lot of cars in their yard because they can afford lots of cars. They have lots of cars because they never throw them away. Rich p…

I am from Honduras one of the poorest countries in Latin America, and if you go to poor neighborhoods you will see very cheap and small houses, but in their garage you will see very good cars, they rather have a nice car than live in a nice house or decent neighborhood. It's strange.

South Africa is one of the poorest countries, yet the #1 selling new car is a BMW. Even if they can't afford the rent, somehow people find ways to spend money on their vehicles, buying crap like alloy wheels and pointless spoilers or darkened windows. I know many people like this, it's very counterintuitive.

Re: Stuff

#95

Post by eelco »

rbreve wrote: post #88
fnid2 wrote: post #76

I have too much stuff. Most people in America do. In fact, the poorer people are, the more stuff they seem to have. Hardly anyone is so poor that they can't afford a front yard full of old cars. Wow, Paul, you really don't understand what it is like to be poor. The poor people don't have a lot of cars in their yard because they can afford lots of cars. They have lots of cars because they never throw them away. Rich p…

I am from Honduras one of the poorest countries in Latin America, and if you go to poor neighborhoods you will see very cheap and small houses, but in their garage you will see very good cars, they rather have a nice car than live in a nice house or decent neighborhood. It's strange.

You can live in your car, but you can't drive in your house ;)

Re: Stuff

#96

Post by riffer »

dejan wrote: post #82
philwelch wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe people with marginal incomes spend themselves into sustained poverty through wasteful consumption. If they saved money instead of buying minimally useful possessions and saving the possessions, maybe they wouldn't have to worry about being able to afford stuff they need. You and I have probably known different sets of poor people, but I've seen cases of this. That doesn't justify throwing things away once yo…

you've laid it out nicely, this is the mindset of the poor and average people. I always remember the photo of Jobs's living room in the 80s. When there isn't too much crap around, you can actually focus on what matters.

STEVE JOBS AT HOME IN 1982 — “This was a very typical time. I was single. All you needed was a cup of tea, a light, and your stereo, you know, and that’s what I had.” —Steve Jobs

http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0712/y_walker08.html

Re: Stuff

#97

Post by SwellJoe »

I just went through a major purge in order to downsize from a 1000 sq ft house, to a ~220 sq ft RV. I've still got too much stuff, but I'm getting closer.

Stuff weighs you down, and makes making major life changes more difficult (even if you know you need them). I stayed in Mountain View at least a year longer than I should have, from a contentment perspective, mostly because the thought of moving was just too much to handle.

Some things I will never allow myself to again have a lot of: Books, CDs and DVDs, more furniture than I use every day, more rooms than I use every day, more computers than I use every day, and anything (clothes, tools, foodstuffs, kitchenwares, etc.) that can sit in a closet or on a shelf for more than a year without being needed. Even now, I think I have probably twice as much stuff as I really need, and I'm planning to move into a smaller, but nicer, RV in a few months, once I've downsized more thoroughly.

Re: Stuff

#98

Post by zasz »

fnid2 wrote: post #76

I have too much stuff. Most people in America do. In fact, the poorer people are, the more stuff they seem to have. Hardly anyone is so poor that they can't afford a front yard full of old cars. Wow, Paul, you really don't understand what it is like to be poor. The poor people don't have a lot of cars in their yard because they can afford lots of cars. They have lots of cars because they never throw them away. Rich p…

That is true. My parents were reduced to selling all their crockery for food during the Cultural Revolution, and we were certainly poor after we came to the US. However, we are not poor anymore, are unlikely to be poor again, and there is no longer a reason for my mother to save our used Kleenexes. I wish I were kidding.

Re: Stuff

#100

Post by _cbsz »

gwern wrote: post #73
oliveoil wrote: post #63

I often think about this. And of one more hidden cost of stuff, especially furniture: it occupies space in a place you pay rent for for. If that sofa takes 2 square meters out of my 40 square meters apartment, that means every 20th rent I pay is just because of this. If my rent is approximately the same as the price of that sofa was, I refinance if every 1.6 years.

> If that sofa takes 2 square meters out of my 40 square meters apartment, that means every 20th rent I pay is just because of this. If you get rid of the sofa, does your landlord give you a 1/20th discount? If he doesn't, then your reasoning is a bit unsound...

Right idea, but a better argument is "does an apartment half the size cost half as much?"
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