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Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

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Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#181

Post by Tenhundfeld »

MichaelGG wrote: post #124
justsaysmthng wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because your addiction is also your wife's problem, your parent's problem, your company's problem. Addiction affects more than just the addict. And addicts are in need of help - while it is easy to think that "they like being high, it's their choice", in fact the addicts hate their habit more than anything, yet they can't stop using without external help. Would you help a person with a broken leg ? Why ? Well, that's…

Not all addicts are in need of help. And many addicts really do enjoy being high or otherwise find opiates help them through life, work, etc. and do not want to quit. And out of those that do want to quit, I'd bet a large amount of it is due to the high prices the legal scheme enforces. With reasonable prices, the biggest issue with being an opiate user disappears.

We should probably make a distinction between users and addicts. Not all users of drugs, even opiates, are physiologically or psychologically dependent on that drug, i.e., addicted.

Of course addicts enjoy being high. I'd wager essentially all addicts enjoy the high, even if the joy is just the abatement of withdrawal symptoms.

And while some addicts don't want to "quit", that's true, a vanishingly small percentage enjoy being addicted. In my reading and limited first-hand discussions, even those addicts who don't want to quit still wish they could "cut back", e.g., wish they could just be a social drinker or only shoot heroin on the weekends. They hate the powerlessness they feel, hate the control the substance has over their lives.

Lastly, I don't have hard evidence to back this up, but I've never read/heard an addict cite the high price of their drug being the biggest reason to quit. The biggest reason they want to quit is typically either its impact on their health or its impact on their relationships (or career, which is basically a relationship). I'm not saying you're irrefutably wrong about this; it just doesn't match my anecdotal experiences.

The one thing all addicts share is an expert ability to obtain and use their substance. If it is physically possible to get their fix, they will find a way. Also, illegal drugs are often cheaper than legal ones, because regulatory compliance and taxes add more expense than operating in a black market. At least, that's the evidence coming out of states and countries that have recently legalized certain drugs.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#182

Post by azernik »

twblalock wrote: post #64
evincarofautumn wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m an alcoholic. I’ve cut back on my use significantly, and I’m currently in a period of abstinence. Because alcohol is legal and socially accepted, it’s entirely my responsibility to manage my behaviour and keep my use to non-problematic levels. Not everyone has the social support to make that happen. I think legalisation would be beneficial, as you say, because the criminal justice system does not serve addicts. H…

Why should your drug use, or anyone else's, create obligations for other people to support you, treat you, and help you overcome addiction? The libertarian case for legalizing drugs falls apart if society has to take responsibility for providing support systems as a reaction to the actions of individual drug users. Frankly, most people would rather continue to ban drugs than pay for treatment for people who abuse the…

Because not everyone who supports drug legalization is a libertarian. There exist pragmatic reasons to legalize drugs even if you believe that the issue is a legitimate state interest.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#183

Post by [deleted] »

krschultz wrote: post #15

I've never taken an illegal drug in my life. I've smoked a cigarette about 5 times. I drank in college but lately I've cut that out of my life as well. I had a security clearance with drug testing requirements for a while and now I just don't like the feeling of a hangover from alcohol or the risk of ingesting random plants/chemicals made by shady people. In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you c…

[deleted]

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#184

Post by vidarh »

digler999 wrote: post #31
merpnderp wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't even imagine the pain and suffering the constraints currently in place cause legitimate users of pain killers. Doctors are so scared of the DEA they're doing crazy things. Someone very close to me had a ruptured disc, killing the nerves in her spine, so much that just standing would cause pain that made her black out or vomit. And even though she'd never been prescribed anything for pain, she had to hover o…

I dont know the details of her situation, but I think chronic pain management goes something like this: * patient such as your friend has excruciating pain, requiring the heaviest of the narcotics (say oxycodone/oxymorphone, instead of a "mere" hydrocodone that you'd get for wisdom teeth or something ). * these narcotics are so incredibly dangerous that they must be taken exactly as prescribed for the following reaso…

... and a good chunk of these people end up on heroin instead when they get taken off these plans, because it's far cheaper to buy heroin on the black market than oxycodone when their doctor throws their toys out the pram. To the point where this is one of the main avenues pushing people to use heroin in developed countries today.

It's a fucked up way of dealing with people we suspect have a health problem to take an action we know makes the problem substantially worse for a large proportion of them.

The irony is that medical grade heroin in predictable doses is one of the safer alternatives, and far cheaper again. But of course these people do not get medical grade heroin - they get street heroin cut with anything from cheaper drugs to brick dust.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#185

Post by Lawtonfogle »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #179
Lawtonfogle wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the pain isn't in the hand. Pain is in the head, caused by signals which normally come from the hand, and results in feelings that the head places onto the hand. So phantom pains in amputated limbs are caused by real things. Maybe the nerve that use to communicate the pain from the hand is sending in a false signal due to another reason. Maybe something in the brain is misfiring and some other sensation from anot…

> So while there might not be much to do if the brain is just crossing signals incorrectly for a couple of days Chronic pain lasts for years, or forever. An incredible amount of effort has gone into understanding it. We can't blame practitioners for knowing that they don't understand pain and aren't likely to in the future, and therefore deciding to treat it with painkillers.

I know chronic pain can last a lifetime. I was more so talking about one off aches that you can't find a cause for but which do often go away within the week.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#186

Post by random_upvoter »

krschultz wrote: post #15

I've never taken an illegal drug in my life. I've smoked a cigarette about 5 times. I drank in college but lately I've cut that out of my life as well. I had a security clearance with drug testing requirements for a while and now I just don't like the feeling of a hangover from alcohol or the risk of ingesting random plants/chemicals made by shady people. In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you c…

I'm a bit disappointed that the top comment is a plea to legalize all drugs.

I don't see what this has got to do with the topic, namely that a legal drug is killing 19,000 Americans each year while making many more addicted. I was expecting to read some suggestions on how to address this problem.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#188

Post by vidarh »

stordoff wrote: post #178
vidarh wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a suggestion because it is often missed by general practitioners: If you've not tried it already, talk to your dentist. Headaches and migraines are often related to teeth or the jaws. Particularly grinding and clenching. Often it can be reduced significantly or go away entirely with a simple night time biteguard.

My dentist did note that I seem to be grinding my teeth a little (probably at night), but didn't think the headaches were related. I'll mention it again next time I see him to see if there is anything worse trying, even as a long shot. Thanks for the advise.

If he's looked at it already he's probably right but doesn't hurt to double check. I mentioned it mainly because I've mentioned my headaches to many doctors over the years and none even raised the possibility or suggested I talked to my dentist about my headaches, so I wasted a lot of time until a dentist happened to bring it up.

If your dentist is unsure if it's worth it and you don't want to spend the money on a custom mould on a long shot I suggest asking for a recommendation for a cheap and crappy generic biteguard to try for a few days. It won't be comfortable and may very well affect your sleep, but it'll be enough to verify it there's any point without the cost.

Another long shot that you've probably discounted already: Make sure you're not compressing your neck at night e.g. by pushing your head up against the top of your bed. I was doing that too, and fixing that helped a lot as well.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#189

Post by citizensixteen »

elipsey wrote: post #148
twblalock wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should your drug use, or anyone else's, create obligations for other people to support you, treat you, and help you overcome addiction? The libertarian case for legalizing drugs falls apart if society has to take responsibility for providing support systems as a reaction to the actions of individual drug users. Frankly, most people would rather continue to ban drugs than pay for treatment for people who abuse the…

>>Why should your drug use, or anyone else's, create obligations for other people to support you, treat you, and help you overcome addiction? Suposing that it doesn't, doing nothing would be a hell of lot cheaper and easier than what we are doing now. Opiodes are derived from cheap agricultural products. A tablet of herion needn't cost more than asprin. The explicit goal of federal enforcment agencies is to raise pri…

>Go get a cup of coffee, fire up youtube, and listen Milton Friedman

Another vote for Milton. I have watched several of his talks on the subject and it is amazing how clear and rational his thinking is. It is a real pleasure to watch. Amazing how this subject has become dominated by misinformation and hype.

Nobel economist Milton Friedman said, "The proper role of government is exactly what John Stuart Mill Said in the middle of the 19th century in 'On Liberty.' is to prevent other people from harming an individual. Government, he said, never has any right to interfere with an individual for that individual’s own good. The case for prohibiting drugs is exactly as strong and as weak as the case for prohibiting people from overeating. We all know that overeating causes more deaths than drugs do. If it’s in principle OK for the government to say you must not consume drugs because they’ll do you harm, why isn’t it all right to say you must not eat too much because you’ll do harm? Why isn’t it all right to say you must not try to go in for skydiving because you’re likely to die? Why isn’t it all right to say, “Oh, skiing, that’s no good, that’s a very dangerous sport, you’ll hurt yourself”? Where do you draw the line? If you look at the drug war from a purely economic point of view, the role of the government is to protect the drug cartel. That's literally true.”

Milton Friedman interview from 1991 on America’s War on Drugs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKhukbe_VkE

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#190

Post by enneff »

random_upvoter wrote: post #186
krschultz wrote: post #15

I've never taken an illegal drug in my life. I've smoked a cigarette about 5 times. I drank in college but lately I've cut that out of my life as well. I had a security clearance with drug testing requirements for a while and now I just don't like the feeling of a hangover from alcohol or the risk of ingesting random plants/chemicals made by shady people. In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you c…

I'm a bit disappointed that the top comment is a plea to legalize all drugs. I don't see what this has got to do with the topic, namely that a legal drug is killing 19,000 Americans each year while making many more addicted. I was expecting to read some suggestions on how to address this problem.

It's on topic because if efforts were focused on harm reduction instead of persecution then those resources would help users of these legal drugs too.
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