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Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

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Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#131

Post by Lawtonfogle »

drug3737 wrote: post #99
SilasX wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For context, it's not just the people running private prisons, but also public prison guard unions: http://ordinary-gentlemen.com/timkowal/2011/06/the-role-of-t...

The vast majority of drug offenders in prison are drug dealers, not drug users. It's extremely rare for drug users to be imprisoned. It boggles my mind that this propaganda is kept being pushed.

Drug dealer meaning they reached some arbitrary definition that has only a passing relationship with dealing drugs.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#132

Post by leeleelee »

krschultz wrote: post #15

I've never taken an illegal drug in my life. I've smoked a cigarette about 5 times. I drank in college but lately I've cut that out of my life as well. I had a security clearance with drug testing requirements for a while and now I just don't like the feeling of a hangover from alcohol or the risk of ingesting random plants/chemicals made by shady people. In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you c…

Another interesting thing about the war on drugs is that during prohibition, the constitution was amended for the government to legally be able stop the sale of alcohol. On the other hand, for other "hard" drugs, there is nothing in the constitution that supports the criminalization of drugs. Unless I am missing something.

Completely aside from that fact, I do agree that it should be treated as a public health issue. Not a criminal matter.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#133

Post by serge2k »

twblalock wrote: post #64
evincarofautumn wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m an alcoholic. I’ve cut back on my use significantly, and I’m currently in a period of abstinence. Because alcohol is legal and socially accepted, it’s entirely my responsibility to manage my behaviour and keep my use to non-problematic levels. Not everyone has the social support to make that happen. I think legalisation would be beneficial, as you say, because the criminal justice system does not serve addicts. H…

Why should your drug use, or anyone else's, create obligations for other people to support you, treat you, and help you overcome addiction? The libertarian case for legalizing drugs falls apart if society has to take responsibility for providing support systems as a reaction to the actions of individual drug users. Frankly, most people would rather continue to ban drugs than pay for treatment for people who abuse the…

> Frankly, most people would rather continue to ban drugs than pay for treatment for people who abuse them.

which just proves once again most people are idiots.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#134

Post by SNvD7vEJ »

twblalock wrote: post #64
evincarofautumn wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m an alcoholic. I’ve cut back on my use significantly, and I’m currently in a period of abstinence. Because alcohol is legal and socially accepted, it’s entirely my responsibility to manage my behaviour and keep my use to non-problematic levels. Not everyone has the social support to make that happen. I think legalisation would be beneficial, as you say, because the criminal justice system does not serve addicts. H…

Why should your drug use, or anyone else's, create obligations for other people to support you, treat you, and help you overcome addiction? The libertarian case for legalizing drugs falls apart if society has to take responsibility for providing support systems as a reaction to the actions of individual drug users. Frankly, most people would rather continue to ban drugs than pay for treatment for people who abuse the…

"It's not drugs that kill people. People kill people."

Oh, wait...

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#135

Post by Lawtonfogle »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #66
creshal wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> overprescription of opioids because they're cheap It's a bit scary how eager doctors are to prescribe them. "Hey doc, I'm in pain" – "Here's a bottle of painkillers, NEXT" Bitch, I don't want painkillers, I want you to figure out why my body is hurting when it's not supposed to. It's surprisingly frustrating to talk doctors into looking for the cause instead of treating the symptom. Thankfully, the metamizole they…

> I don't want painkillers, I want you to figure out why my body is hurting when it's not supposed to. It's surprisingly frustrating to talk doctors into looking for the cause instead of treating the symptom. To be fair, this is related to the symptom you're asking them about. Pain often occurs with no apparent cause. As an extreme example, it is normal for amputees to experience the sensation of a "phantom hand" whe…

But the pain isn't in the hand. Pain is in the head, caused by signals which normally come from the hand, and results in feelings that the head places onto the hand. So phantom pains in amputated limbs are caused by real things. Maybe the nerve that use to communicate the pain from the hand is sending in a false signal due to another reason. Maybe something in the brain is misfiring and some other sensation from another part of the body is registering as pain in the hand. Even if there is no outside of the brain cause for the pain, the brain is still feeling the pain so there is still an actual problem, just one with the brain.

So while there might not be much to do if the brain is just crossing signals incorrectly for a couple of days, I would still suggest significant pain be checked out and a doctor you are paying should help look into it.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#136

Post by btbuildem »

krschultz wrote: post #15

I've never taken an illegal drug in my life. I've smoked a cigarette about 5 times. I drank in college but lately I've cut that out of my life as well. I had a security clearance with drug testing requirements for a while and now I just don't like the feeling of a hangover from alcohol or the risk of ingesting random plants/chemicals made by shady people. In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you c…

> Yet I can not for the life of me understand why drugs are illegal

Because there's a hugely profitable industry in the policing, prosecution and incarceration of people

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#137

Post by jhulla »

musgrove wrote: post #96

If 47k deaths per year is an "epidemic" as the author terms it, the 610k that die each year from heart disease must be an all-out pandemic. It never was a war on drugs. Drugs are inert and aren't capable of fighting a war. It's a war on addiction. And good luck winning that on a national scale with "laws."

Spot on. Addiction causes fundamental changes in the brain. Helping addicts is a complex process well beyond fining or imprisoning them. The goal is to reverse the addiction. It doesn't happen by punishing an addict.

This is a useful paper: "Imaging the Addicted Human Brain", http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2851068/

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#138

Post by [deleted] »

brandonmenc wrote: post #128

Lots of comments from people who have no experience with chronic pain aghast that doctors would fulfill patient "demands" for painkillers instead of treating the underlying cause. Pain is self-report, so all a doctor can do is prescribe based on patient demand. Maybe they can't identify an underlying cause, or maybe the treatment (ex: back surgery) is too risky. Spine surgery that might not work and can leave you wit…

[deleted]

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#139

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

leeleelee wrote: post #132
krschultz wrote: post #15

I've never taken an illegal drug in my life. I've smoked a cigarette about 5 times. I drank in college but lately I've cut that out of my life as well. I had a security clearance with drug testing requirements for a while and now I just don't like the feeling of a hangover from alcohol or the risk of ingesting random plants/chemicals made by shady people. In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you c…

Another interesting thing about the war on drugs is that during prohibition, the constitution was amended for the government to legally be able stop the sale of alcohol. On the other hand, for other "hard" drugs, there is nothing in the constitution that supports the criminalization of drugs. Unless I am missing something. Completely aside from that fact, I do agree that it should be treated as a public health issue.…

That doesn't really change much. The constitution is the law of the land, so if it says nothing about drug use while a federal law bans a set of drugs from sale and use, then that's the law, unless it contradicts the constitution, and in that case, it's up to the Supreme Court to decide.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#140

Post by jcromartie »

btbuildem wrote: post #136
krschultz wrote: post #15

I've never taken an illegal drug in my life. I've smoked a cigarette about 5 times. I drank in college but lately I've cut that out of my life as well. I had a security clearance with drug testing requirements for a while and now I just don't like the feeling of a hangover from alcohol or the risk of ingesting random plants/chemicals made by shady people. In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you c…

> Yet I can not for the life of me understand why drugs are illegal Because there's a hugely profitable industry in the policing, prosecution and incarceration of people

And until the people employed by the systems that police, prosecute, and incarcerate other people have a sufficient safety net, they will be motivated to prop up those systems.

Universal basic income just makes too much sense.

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