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Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

vox.com

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Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#71

Post by hawkice »

md224 wrote: post #62
hawkice wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you can find. I don't want to use them, and I think other people would be better off if they reduced their usage as well. You say you don't understand why drugs are illegal. I think this is your core misunderstanding. You are not the most anti-drug person I can find. I've never used alcohol or cigarettes (I didn't even use painkillers when my four wisdom teet…

Interesting view. What I find problematic is equating drug use with being "high." Sure, you can use enough of a drug that it impairs you, but you can also use less than that. Some may refer to this as "microdosing" but I think this gets it backwards. If anything, drugs are useful tools that can also be "macrodosed" by those wishing to experience extreme effects. I would like to live in a world where all drugs are leg…

I didn't equate them. Saying "I don't think people should drive drunk" doesn't mean I want the legal limit blood alcohol level reduced to epsilon.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#72

Post by pc86 »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #66
creshal wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> overprescription of opioids because they're cheap It's a bit scary how eager doctors are to prescribe them. "Hey doc, I'm in pain" – "Here's a bottle of painkillers, NEXT" Bitch, I don't want painkillers, I want you to figure out why my body is hurting when it's not supposed to. It's surprisingly frustrating to talk doctors into looking for the cause instead of treating the symptom. Thankfully, the metamizole they…

> I don't want painkillers, I want you to figure out why my body is hurting when it's not supposed to. It's surprisingly frustrating to talk doctors into looking for the cause instead of treating the symptom. To be fair, this is related to the symptom you're asking them about. Pain often occurs with no apparent cause. As an extreme example, it is normal for amputees to experience the sensation of a "phantom hand" whe…

Pain sometimes occurs with no known cause. I don't know if I'd go so far as to say "often."

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#73

Post by mikemackle »

mc32 wrote: post #2

So painkillers used against prescription kill more people than any individual illegal drug and since people demand painkillers to treat chronic pain physicians are looking to treat chronic pain with alternatives one such is using MJ as one of those alternatives because misuse doesn't result in fatal overdoses, generally. Vox, stop with the hyperbola.

Unfortunately, there are almost no effective treatments for chronic pain available other than opiod painkillers and there is significant vested interest in the pharmaceutical industry to keep it this way.

Whenever I see an article like this, it is frustrating as there is an alternative to opiods for chronic pain management that is just as effective, carries no risk of overdosing, minimizes the the chance for dependence (and in fact is often used by those looking to break opiod dependence) and at scale, could be available for fractions of a penny. As a bonus, it can also serves as an actual replacement to ADD and antidepressant medications as well as serving as an effective tool against other types of addiction (e.g. alchoholism) and has 100s of years of "clinical trials" in the real world to support its safety. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/should-kratom-be-l...

Unfortunately, the powers that be have no interest in changing the status quo particularly when it would undercut patented money making drugs currently available, so very little research is conducted into this area and those who wish to do so are often actively thwarted to the point one has to conclude that there is not actually a real desire to address this problem.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#74

Post by hawkice »

pc86 wrote: post #68
hawkice wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you can find. I don't want to use them, and I think other people would be better off if they reduced their usage as well. You say you don't understand why drugs are illegal. I think this is your core misunderstanding. You are not the most anti-drug person I can find. I've never used alcohol or cigarettes (I didn't even use painkillers when my four wisdom teet…

I promise you that if you spent any time "admonishing the use of caffeine" you are more anti-drug than the vast majority of Americans. And being under the influence of marijuana while operating a vehicle is illegal everywhere, even where it is a legal substance. DUI is not limited to alcohol.

You confuse my meaning. I am against my own personal use of drugs, but would (with some caveats) support the legalization of all substances in any quantity, particularly prescription medications.

EDIT: my position, which would typically be described as extremely pro-drug, is largely due to my discomfort in treating medical personnel as de facto agents of the government on drug policy without requiring medical experts judge at trial for drug crimes like they do for malpractice proceedings. Essentially you have the people who decide what drug use is legal and illegal having no competent oversight -- we are in a nation with functionally no drug laws to the influential or wealthy enough to locate a doctor amenable to their suggestions, so why not at least offer everyone the same freedom until a more coherent policy is found?

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#75

Post by mc32 »

haroldp wrote: post #14
mc32 wrote: post #2

So painkillers used against prescription kill more people than any individual illegal drug and since people demand painkillers to treat chronic pain physicians are looking to treat chronic pain with alternatives one such is using MJ as one of those alternatives because misuse doesn't result in fatal overdoses, generally. Vox, stop with the hyperbola.

19,000+ dead people a year is a astounding fact, not hyperbole. If I were being hyperbolic, I'd call that "Over Six 9/11s per year".

It affects a lot of people yes. It's also a big problem. It's the juxta that's done in a fashion to get clicks. The article is also rather light on details.

The juxta bothers me because Rx drugs are a necessity as judged by physicians, it's not a lark. Illegal drugs on the other hand are not prescribed, for the most part, and are a different issue altogether. They address perhaps other pains, but conflating them in this sense seems dishonest.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#76

Post by justsaysmthng »

twblalock wrote: post #64
evincarofautumn wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m an alcoholic. I’ve cut back on my use significantly, and I’m currently in a period of abstinence. Because alcohol is legal and socially accepted, it’s entirely my responsibility to manage my behaviour and keep my use to non-problematic levels. Not everyone has the social support to make that happen. I think legalisation would be beneficial, as you say, because the criminal justice system does not serve addicts. H…

Why should your drug use, or anyone else's, create obligations for other people to support you, treat you, and help you overcome addiction? The libertarian case for legalizing drugs falls apart if society has to take responsibility for providing support systems as a reaction to the actions of individual drug users. Frankly, most people would rather continue to ban drugs than pay for treatment for people who abuse the…

Because your addiction is also your wife's problem, your parent's problem, your company's problem.

Addiction affects more than just the addict. And addicts are in need of help - while it is easy to think that "they like being high, it's their choice", in fact the addicts hate their habit more than anything, yet they can't stop using without external help.

Would you help a person with a broken leg ? Why ?

Well, that's your answer right there.

Edit: Just a couple of days ago I've watched this documentary and I guess that's how I came to these conclusions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k01VM1f1Akk

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#77

Post by billmalarky »

mapt wrote: post #36
swillis16 wrote: post #7

All it takes is one or two extra pills to get high from the standard opioid pain prescription. It would've been nice to see this mentioned in the article but it seems pretty light on content.

All it takes is the standard opioid pain prescription. That's getting high. Opioids get you high. That's what's necessary for pain relief: Altered neurological states in which pain coming in from the nervous system doesn't have such a strong effect on the conscious mind. It's that simple. Deal with it. Drugs have effects. Usage doesn't cross some threshold dose and instantly become abuse.

Painkillers are incredibly effective at stopping pain before the point at which most would describe the person as "high."

It's not euphoria from a high that blocks the pain, the medication really does work as intended.

It's just also incredibly habit forming and dangerous.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#78

Post by md224 »

twblalock wrote: post #64
evincarofautumn wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m an alcoholic. I’ve cut back on my use significantly, and I’m currently in a period of abstinence. Because alcohol is legal and socially accepted, it’s entirely my responsibility to manage my behaviour and keep my use to non-problematic levels. Not everyone has the social support to make that happen. I think legalisation would be beneficial, as you say, because the criminal justice system does not serve addicts. H…

Why should your drug use, or anyone else's, create obligations for other people to support you, treat you, and help you overcome addiction? The libertarian case for legalizing drugs falls apart if society has to take responsibility for providing support systems as a reaction to the actions of individual drug users. Frankly, most people would rather continue to ban drugs than pay for treatment for people who abuse the…

Libertarians like free markets, right? Has anyone tried applying free market principles to drug use?

Perhaps if all drugs were legal, people would be able to find less harmful drugs instead of being forced to abuse what's currently legal, and medical costs would go down. I remember reading an anecdote about a guy who stopped drinking by taking occasional painkillers. It scratched the same itch, so he didn't feel the need to drink. Of course the reaction was "this guy is just swapping one addiction for another, and he's going to end up dead with a needle in his arm." But I would much rather have someone dependent on opiates than dependent on alcohol. I can't help but wonder if millions of alcoholics could get sober with, say, a daily dose of Buprenorphine.

Seems like more choice would be a good thing.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#79

Post by merpnderp »

digler999 wrote: post #31
merpnderp wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't even imagine the pain and suffering the constraints currently in place cause legitimate users of pain killers. Doctors are so scared of the DEA they're doing crazy things. Someone very close to me had a ruptured disc, killing the nerves in her spine, so much that just standing would cause pain that made her black out or vomit. And even though she'd never been prescribed anything for pain, she had to hover o…

I dont know the details of her situation, but I think chronic pain management goes something like this: * patient such as your friend has excruciating pain, requiring the heaviest of the narcotics (say oxycodone/oxymorphone, instead of a "mere" hydrocodone that you'd get for wisdom teeth or something ). * these narcotics are so incredibly dangerous that they must be taken exactly as prescribed for the following reaso…

The person I was referring to was so traumatized by the experience she went to a surgeon two days later and begged for the surgery, even though she was strongly advised to give the pain pills and anti-inflammatories time to work. The surgeon scheduled her 12 hours later and she's been better than new for several years now....Luckily.

People have agency. And should be allowed to make their choices. Especially in cases where not allowing them to make their own choice starts hurting innocent people. And by hurting, I mean that very very literally in this case. The type of pain that causes people to end their lives. Caused by a system more afraid of a bad decision than of leaving people alternating between howling and sobbing in pain for days.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#80

Post by rwmj »

pc86 wrote: post #69
md224 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting view. What I find problematic is equating drug use with being "high." Sure, you can use enough of a drug that it impairs you, but you can also use less than that. Some may refer to this as "microdosing" but I think this gets it backwards. If anything, drugs are useful tools that can also be "macrodosed" by those wishing to experience extreme effects. I would like to live in a world where all drugs are leg…

I'm curious what life-enriching experience you can have with "a little bit" of heroin or meth.

A "little bit" of heroin is good for pain control. It is prescribed as such to pregnant women giving birth in the UK (it's called "diamorphine" but it's chemically the same). Amphetamines are prescribed in the army to keep soldiers and pilots awake.
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