Earlier quoted context omitted.
Rural or urban also makes a difference. My brother and I regard fish as "poor people's food", a thought brought on by experiences as youths. I should point out many poor people on EBT (new name for food stamps) do buy toilet paper in bulk once a month. I do wonder how many merchants raise some prices on the 1st of the month.
This is exactly one of the problems with EBT. Knowing that all the state benefit income is fast approaching, businesses do everything they can to ensure they sell as much cheap Chinese-made goods, horribly unhealthy food products, and (cold) sandwiches (never hot, that's not something EBT covers) as they can. Every month this causes huge boom-bust cycles in neighborhoods and local businesses, which adds to the perpet…
Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else
131–140 of 164 posts
Re: Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is exactly one of the problems with EBT. Knowing that all the state benefit income is fast approaching, businesses do everything they can to ensure they sell as much cheap Chinese-made goods, horribly unhealthy food products, and (cold) sandwiches (never hot, that's not something EBT covers) as they can. Every month this causes huge boom-bust cycles in neighborhoods and local businesses, which adds to the perpet…
What exactly do you suggest to fix the problem with EBT?
The exact solution is complicated. It would, on the one hand, involve grandfathering in all current entrenched users of state subsidies. On the other, we'd have to allow young people to opt out of any of these payroll taxes, and therefore not be eligible to receive these benefits. They would see a massive uptick in their take-home income, which they can spend as they wish instead of having to buy the cheap bullshit that EBT affords its users.
With those extra dollars young consumers would have many more votes as to where their dollars go, and will have a greater ability to influence corporate behavior. Companies that peddle sugar-filled crap will have less of that predictable monthly revenue to depend upon, and therefore the prices for their food products will rise. This will begin making real food more attractive to EBT consumers, and will introduce actual competition into the market.
The only reason that these multi-national food product corporations can make money on uninformed, unhealthy consumers is because the government props up these business models. This can be witnessed throughout the debate among many stakeholders - farming subsidies, environmental regulations, tariffs, and even our government's own horrible diet recommendations - there are so many bad actors here that no solution will be comprehensive. What I believe to be the most important of all the fixes that we need to derive, however, is the education factor. Because EBT exists, consumers are not driven to be educated. Until we give people a choice, they will never bother to lift a finger and educate themselves.
All the well-meaning charities, after-school programs, and education facilities on the planet will not stop Coca-Cola from lobbying Congress. Even Michelle Obama's ridiculous nutrition program facilities the wrong message. (Look at how little abstinence from sugar is promoted by her, and how much exercise is promoted, as if kids have the ability to run 10 miles per day to work off the abhorrent amount of sugar in their breakfast cereals, let alone the rest of the sugary junk they consume on a daily basis.) The only way to get Congress to listen is to have the electorate realize just how fucked over they have been by their representatives who peddled the food product multi-nationals' prerogatives, and get MAD AS HELL about it.
Re: Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
thanks for sharing that nugget of wisdom, I don't think I've ever heard a perspective on education that was more inspiring. I'm going to stop making excuses and go back to school, I think.
I almost don't want to say this because I'd hate to discourage anyone from going back to school, but school isn't necessary or sufficient for having or gaining an education. Nowadays especially.
Re: Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else
#134I've never been able to articulate my own feeling about wealth and poverty. I've been objectively poor at some points in my life. I became vegetarian in my early 20s when I was travelling because I couldn't afford meat. Even then there were some weeks where I didn't eat for a few days because I had spent all my money for the week. It sounds bad, but being hungry taught me how to prioritise and I don't regret it. In o…
If you have the skills/connections/etc to be able to trivially leave poverty when you need to then you are never truly living in poverty. You lack the vulnerability.
Your story is nice, but it has nothing to do with poverty.
Re: Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
But the Vimes theory was being offered to explain socioeconomic inequality within a society and depends on the "poor" options being more expensive per unit, while the microfinance successes happen mainly via investment of from richer countries into poorer ones, where they have lower prices per unit. (i.e. a dollar buys a lot more stuff in the third world). IOW, to the extent that microfinance has successes, it's in s…
There is nothing about the theory of microfinance that relies on the existence of international borders or differences in purchasing power. You have created a straw man. The fact that "impact per dollar" is greater when one is able to exploit purchasing power differences makes it relatively more attractive as a charitable enterprise, so many charity organizations gravitate there, but it is absolutely not a necessary…
But there is about the Vimes theory, which is what I'm criticizing. That theory implies that microfinance should work within a society, where dollars don't go as far for the poor. The fact that microfinance is more effective as you deviate further from that situation, is then a point against that theory (even if not completely opposite).
You're responding to a different point than the one I'm making.
My point: "Vimes is wrong to attribute poverty to the poor not having access to a loan of $50 to buy longer-lasting stuff, as that would imply intra-society microloans would fix it, which doesn't happen."
The point you're criticizing: "Vimes implies microfinance never works."
(That, by the way, is how a well-supported accusation of strawmanning would look. "Strawman" means "replied to a wrong argument", not -- as you seem to be using it -- "one fact you relied on is false".)
Re: Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is nothing about the theory of microfinance that relies on the existence of international borders or differences in purchasing power. You have created a straw man. The fact that "impact per dollar" is greater when one is able to exploit purchasing power differences makes it relatively more attractive as a charitable enterprise, so many charity organizations gravitate there, but it is absolutely not a necessary…
>There is nothing about the theory of microfinance that relies on the existence of international borders or differences in purchasing power. But there is about the Vimes theory , which is what I'm criticizing. That theory implies that microfinance should work within a society, where dollars don't go as far for the poor. The fact that microfinance is more effective as you deviate further from that situation, is then a…
My point is that it does, just not as often.
Re: Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Wiping is barbaric! Your bottom begs for salvation It's funny but I really do fee this way when I use regular toilet paper. You're just smearing poop all around! It's sick!
So true! http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZAeV-8Ay5Go
Re: Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else
#138Some destitute-college-student friends were telling me that they lived on a $20/week of rice + beans + canned tomatoes; I suggested that I take them out to Costco and for $100 stuff their pantries with ~3 months of supplies. They patiently explained to idiot me that the reason they ate so poorly was because finding $100 was effectively impossible.
Why not loan them the money in return for paying back a portion of the savings? And then reinvest the savings in other modes of greater efficiency, which enables more, etc.
It may not be logical, but I accept it as one of the quirks of human behavior. Similar to how pointing out the economic nature of some relationships and interactions is often considered creepy and anti-social (for example, pointing out how certain commonly assumed altruistic behaviors are not altruistic).
Re: Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why not loan them the money in return for paying back a portion of the savings? And then reinvest the savings in other modes of greater efficiency, which enables more, etc.
Because the general rule is that you can't loan money to friends. Either it is a gift which may be repaid back, or the friendship gets put under extreme stress. It may not be logical, but I accept it as one of the quirks of human behavior. Similar to how pointing out the economic nature of some relationships and interactions is often considered creepy and anti-social (for example, pointing out how certain commonly as…
But that just proves the broader point: it's not the mere $100 that's holding them up; it rarely is. Rather, it's the practice of not thinking long term, and not accumulating savings even when you have clear opportunities.
Re: Why the poor pay more for toilet paper and just about everything else
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
>There is nothing about the theory of microfinance that relies on the existence of international borders or differences in purchasing power. But there is about the Vimes theory , which is what I'm criticizing. That theory implies that microfinance should work within a society, where dollars don't go as far for the poor. The fact that microfinance is more effective as you deviate further from that situation, is then a…
> which doesn't happen. My point is that it does , just not as often.