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Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

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Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is built into the assumptions of the country that some people will argue in their own self interest over that of the general public. In fact, it is expected that the majority will prefer their interest over the good of the whole. It is thenjob of Congress to mediate and ignore self-serving interests, but you can't even blame them for not doing their jobs, because it's the responsibility of the people to call out t…

My impression is that in this case it's a state issue. The 3 strikes law is a local decision. That doesn't change the game theory aspect of everyone chasing their own interest, and a small minority who cares a ton about an issue over-riding a majority who only cares a little. (Prison owners know 100% they'll benefit, while most of the rest of us assume we won't have 3 strikes against us)

It is both a state and federal issue.

In 1994, Bill Clinton passed a crime omnibus bill (with Hillary Clinton advocating for it) which established a federal 3 strikes provision. Separately a number of states passed their own 3 strikes provisions. It is easier to hit 3 strikes under local law than federal so local bills put more in prison. But the Clintons now acknowledge that their bill is responsible for a big chunk of the increase in mass incarceration, particularly for blacks.

Of course Hillary flipped on the issue in the last 2 years when she realized that the Democratic electorate no longer supports "tough on crime" legislation.

For the record, Bernie Sanders voted for the exact same legislation, despite giving lots of speeches denouncing mass incarceration. However his voting record shows that he began voting against increased punishment in 1999. So both flipped, but Sanders did so much earlier.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#62
post #59

I've never taken an illegal drug in my life. I've smoked a cigarette about 5 times. I drank in college but lately I've cut that out of my life as well. I had a security clearance with drug testing requirements for a while and now I just don't like the feeling of a hangover from alcohol or the risk of ingesting random plants/chemicals made by shady people. In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you c…

> In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you can find. I don't want to use them, and I think other people would be better off if they reduced their usage as well. You say you don't understand why drugs are illegal. I think this is your core misunderstanding. You are not the most anti-drug person I can find. I've never used alcohol or cigarettes (I didn't even use painkillers when my four wisdom teet…

Interesting view. What I find problematic is equating drug use with being "high." Sure, you can use enough of a drug that it impairs you, but you can also use less than that.

Some may refer to this as "microdosing" but I think this gets it backwards. If anything, drugs are useful tools that can also be "macrodosed" by those wishing to experience extreme effects.

I would like to live in a world where all drugs are legal and people can use them to enrich their lives, not just escape from them.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#63
post #59

I've never taken an illegal drug in my life. I've smoked a cigarette about 5 times. I drank in college but lately I've cut that out of my life as well. I had a security clearance with drug testing requirements for a while and now I just don't like the feeling of a hangover from alcohol or the risk of ingesting random plants/chemicals made by shady people. In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you c…

> In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you can find. I don't want to use them, and I think other people would be better off if they reduced their usage as well. You say you don't understand why drugs are illegal. I think this is your core misunderstanding. You are not the most anti-drug person I can find. I've never used alcohol or cigarettes (I didn't even use painkillers when my four wisdom teet…

[deleted]

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#64

I've never taken an illegal drug in my life. I've smoked a cigarette about 5 times. I drank in college but lately I've cut that out of my life as well. I had a security clearance with drug testing requirements for a while and now I just don't like the feeling of a hangover from alcohol or the risk of ingesting random plants/chemicals made by shady people. In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you c…

I’m an alcoholic. I’ve cut back on my use significantly, and I’m currently in a period of abstinence. Because alcohol is legal and socially accepted, it’s entirely my responsibility to manage my behaviour and keep my use to non-problematic levels. Not everyone has the social support to make that happen. I think legalisation would be beneficial, as you say, because the criminal justice system does not serve addicts. H…

Why should your drug use, or anyone else's, create obligations for other people to support you, treat you, and help you overcome addiction?

The libertarian case for legalizing drugs falls apart if society has to take responsibility for providing support systems as a reaction to the actions of individual drug users. Frankly, most people would rather continue to ban drugs than pay for treatment for people who abuse them.

Yes, I know this is shortsighted because we already pay for the costs of incarceration and law enforcement. But that's the status quo, and changing it is going to require convincing people that the alternative is better.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#65
post #53

Send patients home with Narcan and train the people they live with to administer it as well. Have every EMT, firefighter, and police officer in the nation carry and know how to administer Narcan. Have it be part of every single first aid kit sold in this country. Remove the social stigma of drug abuse. Remove penalties for people who help others who are overdosing. You'd think someone would have some common sense in…

The Scottish government started providing naloxone (Narcan) to opiate users on a large scale in 2010. Naloxone and first aid training was offered to users of needle exchange services, prison leavers and other people at risk of opiate overdose.

In the first year there were 365 confirmed uses of naloxone, but that is believed to be a significant underestimate of overall use.

The evidence is clear - naloxone works.

http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0045/00451251.pdf

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#66
post #34

I've lost at least two elderly, extended family members this way. Both applied both a patch and took a pill, which caused an OD. The issue is that many opioids and non opioids gap between the therapeutic dose range and LD50% is often dangerously narrow. Complication #0: serum bioavailable molecule assay is rarely monitored. People metabolize and clear drugs at vastly differently rates. Complication #1: Hospital mista…

> overprescription of opioids because they're cheap It's a bit scary how eager doctors are to prescribe them. "Hey doc, I'm in pain" – "Here's a bottle of painkillers, NEXT" Bitch, I don't want painkillers, I want you to figure out why my body is hurting when it's not supposed to. It's surprisingly frustrating to talk doctors into looking for the cause instead of treating the symptom. Thankfully, the metamizole they…

> I don't want painkillers, I want you to figure out why my body is hurting when it's not supposed to. It's surprisingly frustrating to talk doctors into looking for the cause instead of treating the symptom.

To be fair, this is related to the symptom you're asking them about. Pain often occurs with no apparent cause.

As an extreme example, it is normal for amputees to experience the sensation of a "phantom hand" where their hand would be if it hadn't been amputated. The phantom hand can feel pain. I'm fairly confident that there is nothing physically wrong with the hand someone doesn't have, even if it is in pain.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#67
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All it takes is the standard opioid pain prescription. That's getting high. Opioids get you high. That's what's necessary for pain relief: Altered neurological states in which pain coming in from the nervous system doesn't have such a strong effect on the conscious mind. It's that simple. Deal with it. Drugs have effects. Usage doesn't cross some threshold dose and instantly become abuse.

Oh, I disagree. There is most certainly a difference between therapeutic use for pain reduction, and the euphoric response normally associated with an opiate high. Most people using opiates on-label are not getting high from them. Even if they do the first couple times they take them, that passes.

I definitely got stratospheric on my prescribed dose of one single Ambien pill (couldn't recognize myself in a mirror, saw kaleidoscopic visions, 2d videos became 3d portals into other dimensions). Absolutely some people could get high on one opiate pill. I understand your skepticism, but I'd like to assure you there is tremendous metabolic diversity.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#68
post #59

I've never taken an illegal drug in my life. I've smoked a cigarette about 5 times. I drank in college but lately I've cut that out of my life as well. I had a security clearance with drug testing requirements for a while and now I just don't like the feeling of a hangover from alcohol or the risk of ingesting random plants/chemicals made by shady people. In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you c…

> In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you can find. I don't want to use them, and I think other people would be better off if they reduced their usage as well. You say you don't understand why drugs are illegal. I think this is your core misunderstanding. You are not the most anti-drug person I can find. I've never used alcohol or cigarettes (I didn't even use painkillers when my four wisdom teet…

I promise you that if you spent any time "admonishing the use of caffeine" you are more anti-drug than the vast majority of Americans.

And being under the influence of marijuana while operating a vehicle is illegal everywhere, even where it is a legal substance. DUI is not limited to alcohol.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#69
post #62
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you can find. I don't want to use them, and I think other people would be better off if they reduced their usage as well. You say you don't understand why drugs are illegal. I think this is your core misunderstanding. You are not the most anti-drug person I can find. I've never used alcohol or cigarettes (I didn't even use painkillers when my four wisdom teet…

Interesting view. What I find problematic is equating drug use with being "high." Sure, you can use enough of a drug that it impairs you, but you can also use less than that. Some may refer to this as "microdosing" but I think this gets it backwards. If anything, drugs are useful tools that can also be "macrodosed" by those wishing to experience extreme effects. I would like to live in a world where all drugs are leg…

I'm curious what life-enriching experience you can have with "a little bit" of heroin or meth.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#70
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All it takes is the standard opioid pain prescription. That's getting high. Opioids get you high. That's what's necessary for pain relief: Altered neurological states in which pain coming in from the nervous system doesn't have such a strong effect on the conscious mind. It's that simple. Deal with it. Drugs have effects. Usage doesn't cross some threshold dose and instantly become abuse.

Oh, I disagree. There is most certainly a difference between therapeutic use for pain reduction, and the euphoric response normally associated with an opiate high. Most people using opiates on-label are not getting high from them. Even if they do the first couple times they take them, that passes.

It also passes for people who take enormous amounts with no regard to the label, and had no pain. So what's the difference?
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