Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug • Hacker News Board

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#41

Post by mathattack » Wed, Mar 09, 2016, 6:26 PM UTC

GauntletWizard wrote: post #29

mathattack wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It boggles my mind that it's somehow acceptable for the folks running prisons to be able to lobby for the 3 strikes laws. http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2010/09/16/117661/sb1070-p...

It is built into the assumptions of the country that some people will argue in their own self interest over that of the general public. In fact, it is expected that the majority will prefer their interest over the good of the whole. It is thenjob of Congress to mediate and ignore self-serving interests, but you can't even blame them for not doing their jobs, because it's the responsibility of the people to call out t…

My impression is that in this case it's a state issue. The 3 strikes law is a local decision.

That doesn't change the game theory aspect of everyone chasing their own interest, and a small minority who cares a ton about an issue over-riding a majority who only cares a little. (Prison owners know 100% they'll benefit, while most of the rest of us assume we won't have 3 strikes against us)

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#42

Post by encoderer » Wed, Mar 09, 2016, 6:27 PM UTC

mapt wrote: post #36

swillis16 wrote: post #7

All it takes is one or two extra pills to get high from the standard opioid pain prescription. It would've been nice to see this mentioned in the article but it seems pretty light on content.

All it takes is the standard opioid pain prescription. That's getting high. Opioids get you high. That's what's necessary for pain relief: Altered neurological states in which pain coming in from the nervous system doesn't have such a strong effect on the conscious mind. It's that simple. Deal with it. Drugs have effects. Usage doesn't cross some threshold dose and instantly become abuse.

Oh, I disagree. There is most certainly a difference between therapeutic use for pain reduction, and the euphoric response normally associated with an opiate high. Most people using opiates on-label are not getting high from them. Even if they do the first couple times they take them, that passes.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#43

Post by k-mcgrady » Wed, Mar 09, 2016, 6:31 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #2

So painkillers used against prescription kill more people than any individual illegal drug and since people demand painkillers to treat chronic pain physicians are looking to treat chronic pain with alternatives one such is using MJ as one of those alternatives because misuse doesn't result in fatal overdoses, generally. Vox, stop with the hyperbola.

>> "people demand painkillers"

I might be completely wrong here so please correct me if I am. Why would a doctor care what a patient demands? Tell them no. There's nothing they can do about it. I can't demand any prescription drugs from my doctor (I'm in the UK) - and I've tried once. Do doctors in the US worry about losing money if they lose a patient or this that not the case?

Edit: Thanks to those who responded. Although I suspected it it still blows my mind that people don't see how and of an idea that is.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#44

Post by evincarofautumn » Wed, Mar 09, 2016, 6:32 PM UTC

krschultz wrote: post #15

I've never taken an illegal drug in my life. I've smoked a cigarette about 5 times. I drank in college but lately I've cut that out of my life as well. I had a security clearance with drug testing requirements for a while and now I just don't like the feeling of a hangover from alcohol or the risk of ingesting random plants/chemicals made by shady people. In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you c…

I’m an alcoholic. I’ve cut back on my use significantly, and I’m currently in a period of abstinence. Because alcohol is legal and socially accepted, it’s entirely my responsibility to manage my behaviour and keep my use to non-problematic levels. Not everyone has the social support to make that happen.

I think legalisation would be beneficial, as you say, because the criminal justice system does not serve addicts. However, while proceeding with legalisation, we must also establish better social support systems so that people can safely enjoy drugs in moderation.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#45

Post by diskcat » Wed, Mar 09, 2016, 6:32 PM UTC

GauntletWizard wrote: post #29

mathattack wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It boggles my mind that it's somehow acceptable for the folks running prisons to be able to lobby for the 3 strikes laws. http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2010/09/16/117661/sb1070-p...

It is built into the assumptions of the country that some people will argue in their own self interest over that of the general public. In fact, it is expected that the majority will prefer their interest over the good of the whole. It is thenjob of Congress to mediate and ignore self-serving interests, but you can't even blame them for not doing their jobs, because it's the responsibility of the people to call out t…

It's true that the people are responsible for the state of the government, after all if they didn't like it they could just revolt and install a new and better system...

In reality when you have a country of 300M, a single voice is so tiny as to be not worth speaking up. If you are in a town hall meeting it's completely different.

Which is why democracy doesn't work when you get too big. The top governmental level is too removed from the individuals as to be entirely oblivious to it. Citizens feel powerless and the corporations bypass the elective system by going straight for whoever is in power right now. The special interest power in concentrated and the benefit to them from legislation are obvious while the power of the people is disperse and the disbenefits dilute so nobody 'feels' the pain of a tariff or a corporate tax.

Governments should be kept small and local.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#46

Post by mtgx » Wed, Mar 09, 2016, 6:34 PM UTC

mathattack wrote: post #25

beamatronic wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> insane amounts of money I think you said it yourself - not to be snarky or anything. But someone has found a way to get rich, and they use their funds to lobby to keep the current system in place.

It boggles my mind that it's somehow acceptable for the folks running prisons to be able to lobby for the 3 strikes laws. http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2010/09/16/117661/sb1070-p...

This is why I think all lobbying should be banned, in combination strict campaign finance laws, and strict enforcement of those laws, no matter who breaks them (even if billionaire candidates do, or say the VP of the country. Put them all in jail if they do it).

Instead of lobbying, what you should have is just hearings. The companies could still be free to offer a witness for the hearing, but it's all going to be public, and it's going to look weird if all of your witnesses are corporate people or all are from law enforcement agencies, when debating a new issue/bill.

Open debates in public hearings where multiple politicians participate beat backroom lobbying deals any day.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#47

Post by 0xffff2 » Wed, Mar 09, 2016, 6:40 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #2

So painkillers used against prescription kill more people than any individual illegal drug and since people demand painkillers to treat chronic pain physicians are looking to treat chronic pain with alternatives one such is using MJ as one of those alternatives because misuse doesn't result in fatal overdoses, generally. Vox, stop with the hyperbola.

I don't see what conic sections have to do with this...

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#48

Post by evincarofautumn » Wed, Mar 09, 2016, 6:41 PM UTC

Igglyboo wrote: post #27

cpfohl wrote: post #3

Knowing what I know about opioid painkillers, I don't think I'd ever accept a script for them. I'd accept them in the hospital, but never in a bottle that goes home with me...

No one ever got hooked with the bottle of Tylenol 3 they send you home with after you get your wisdom teeth out. But when it's oxy or hydromorphone I'd agree, also I don't even want to think about having morphine or fentanyl patches in my possession.

Still, when I had my wisdom teeth out at 17, I threw away the painkillers. I knew that they would be problematic for me, so I decided to not even go there.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#49

Post by hardcandy » Wed, Mar 09, 2016, 6:43 PM UTC

krschultz wrote: post #15

I've never taken an illegal drug in my life. I've smoked a cigarette about 5 times. I drank in college but lately I've cut that out of my life as well. I had a security clearance with drug testing requirements for a while and now I just don't like the feeling of a hangover from alcohol or the risk of ingesting random plants/chemicals made by shady people. In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you c…

If you want to understand the impact that the 'war on drugs' has had on inner cities check out Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets by David Simon (http://fave.co/1p8kUh6) - an amazing read, and it's the book that the TV series The Wire is based on as well. I agree that these prohibitionist policies have done more harm to the people of the United States than just about anything else over the last few decades. There are also serious externalities, like Mexico becoming a failed state in part due to the narco cartels fueled by black market drug sales into the US.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#50

Post by bronson » Wed, Mar 09, 2016, 6:50 PM UTC

k-mcgrady wrote: post #43

mc32 wrote: post #2

So painkillers used against prescription kill more people than any individual illegal drug and since people demand painkillers to treat chronic pain physicians are looking to treat chronic pain with alternatives one such is using MJ as one of those alternatives because misuse doesn't result in fatal overdoses, generally. Vox, stop with the hyperbola.

>> "people demand painkillers" I might be completely wrong here so please correct me if I am. Why would a doctor care what a patient demands? Tell them no. There's nothing they can do about it. I can't demand any prescription drugs from my doctor (I'm in the UK) - and I've tried once. Do doctors in the US worry about losing money if they lose a patient or this that not the case? Edit: Thanks to those who responded. A…

Yep! Prescribing drugs can be very lucrative.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/03/doctor-murder-...

She made $5 million in 3 years. There are offices like this all over the US.