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AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

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Re: AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

#51

Post by 21 »

esturk wrote: post #24
sethbannon wrote: post #7

I was at the 2003 match of Garry Kasparov vs Deep Junior -- the strongest chess player of all time vs what was at that point the strongest chess playing computer in history. Kasparov drew that match, but it was clear it was the last stand of homo sapiens in the man vs machine chess battle. Back then, people took solace in the game of Go. Many boldly and confidently predicted we wouldn't see a computer beat the Go wor…

I've never felt playing against what is suppose to be an entire room of machines (wether Deep Blue or Watson) to be fair. What would be fair is to limit the total mass of the computer to say 200kg and leave it at that. What is effectively happening is AlphaGo is running on a distributed system of many, many machines. Even Watson took an entire room. Google is paying a premium to push AlphaGo to win.

A top smartphone chess program can beat pretty much all but the best few players in the world. Do you think it's fair to pit a 150 gram device against a 70 kg human?

Re: AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

#52

Post by onion2k »

21 wrote: post #12

The thing that was supposed to take at least 10 years happened. Only last month people were still saying that no way AlphaGo will beat the champion and that it will be crushed. Today everybody will have seen it coming and say that it was normal. Yet people will still tell that worrying about AI taking over is like worrying about overpopulation on Mars, and that this is a problem at least 50 years out.

Yet people will still tell that worrying about AI taking over is like worrying about overpopulation on Mars, and that this is a problem at least 50 years out.

As hard as writing AI for a problem space like "how to win at Go" is, it's several orders of magnitude easier than creating a general AI with the self-awareness required to see us as a threat.

Re: AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

#53

Post by knaik94 »

esturk wrote: post #24
sethbannon wrote: post #7

I was at the 2003 match of Garry Kasparov vs Deep Junior -- the strongest chess player of all time vs what was at that point the strongest chess playing computer in history. Kasparov drew that match, but it was clear it was the last stand of homo sapiens in the man vs machine chess battle. Back then, people took solace in the game of Go. Many boldly and confidently predicted we wouldn't see a computer beat the Go wor…

I've never felt playing against what is suppose to be an entire room of machines (wether Deep Blue or Watson) to be fair. What would be fair is to limit the total mass of the computer to say 200kg and leave it at that. What is effectively happening is AlphaGo is running on a distributed system of many, many machines. Even Watson took an entire room. Google is paying a premium to push AlphaGo to win.

The real achievement is in the algorithm. To make an analogy, the accomplishment of putting a man on the moon required that we understand enough to make a rocket. We could have put hundreds of car engines together but that wouldn't ever have gotten us to the moon.

Re: AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

#54

Post by kolinko »

awwducks wrote: post #21
dwaltrip wrote: post #8

This is my generation's Gary Kasparov vs. Deep Blue. In many ways, it is more significant. Several top commentators were saying how AlphaGo has improved noticeably since October. AlphaGo's victory tonight marks the moment that go is no longer a human dominated contest. It was a very exciting game, incredible level of play. I really enjoyed watching it live with the expert commentary. I recommend the AGA youtube chann…

Yep, terrific commentary by Myungwan Kim 9p on the AGA channel. For the folks who aren't as familiar with the game, how did you find the commentary (for any channel)? What would you be interested in hearing for events like these?

As a person who knew only the basic rules beforehand, I wouldn't imagine it any better. Any more complicated and I'd get lost.

I'd love to see one day a live commentary, with an extra window showing what computer is thinking at the moment.

Re: AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

#55

Post by Eliezer »

panic wrote: post #48
Eliezer wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an improved tree search. Deepmind was almost pro level purely using the deep learning network before doing any Monte Carlo search. One way of looking at the significance of this is that it might tell us that relatively simple machine learning algorithms can capture key aspects of the versatile human cortical capacity to learn things like Go using sheer pattern recognition. (It's amazing that human visual cor…

Regardless of how good the deep learning network is on its own, the algorithm described in the DeepMind paper is an improved tree search.

I don't think it's accurate to call AlphaGo 'improved tree search' the way that Deep Blue was improved tree search. You could with equal justice call it an improved neural net.

Re: AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

#56

Post by nefitty »

esturk wrote: post #24
sethbannon wrote: post #7

I was at the 2003 match of Garry Kasparov vs Deep Junior -- the strongest chess player of all time vs what was at that point the strongest chess playing computer in history. Kasparov drew that match, but it was clear it was the last stand of homo sapiens in the man vs machine chess battle. Back then, people took solace in the game of Go. Many boldly and confidently predicted we wouldn't see a computer beat the Go wor…

I've never felt playing against what is suppose to be an entire room of machines (wether Deep Blue or Watson) to be fair. What would be fair is to limit the total mass of the computer to say 200kg and leave it at that. What is effectively happening is AlphaGo is running on a distributed system of many, many machines. Even Watson took an entire room. Google is paying a premium to push AlphaGo to win.

Considering the complexity of the human brain, it seems only fair to balance out a competitor's handicap in some way. Your idea seems to anticipate the logical progression of these tests: "Nature made this mind inside this small object, the brain, why don't we do that?" Regardless, the trend of course is toward miniaturization. I see news like this recent story: "Glass Disc Can Store 360 TB" http://petapixel.com/2016/02/16/glass-disc-can-store-360-tb-... to back up imagined futures like the film Her: https://youtu.be/WzV6mXIOVl4 (and that film doesn't even address whether the OSes are connected through a wireless network).

This stuff is happening fast, and we might have found ourselves, historically, in a place of unintelligible amounts of change. And possibly undreamt of amounts of self-progression.

Re: AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

#57

Post by studentrob »

bencoder wrote: post #27

I was really expecting Lee Sedol to win here. I'm very excited, and congratulations to the DeepMind team, but I'm a bit sad about the result, as a go player and as a human.

If it's any consolation, there are still tons of things humans are far better at than machines.

Re: AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

#59

Post by agildehaus »

esturk wrote: post #24
sethbannon wrote: post #7

I was at the 2003 match of Garry Kasparov vs Deep Junior -- the strongest chess player of all time vs what was at that point the strongest chess playing computer in history. Kasparov drew that match, but it was clear it was the last stand of homo sapiens in the man vs machine chess battle. Back then, people took solace in the game of Go. Many boldly and confidently predicted we wouldn't see a computer beat the Go wor…

I've never felt playing against what is suppose to be an entire room of machines (wether Deep Blue or Watson) to be fair. What would be fair is to limit the total mass of the computer to say 200kg and leave it at that. What is effectively happening is AlphaGo is running on a distributed system of many, many machines. Even Watson took an entire room. Google is paying a premium to push AlphaGo to win.

Has Google talked about the amount of computing resources they're throwing at this match? I'd be very interested to know.

Re: AlphaGo beats the world champion Lee Sedol in first of five matches

#60

Post by argonaut »

Eliezer wrote: post #55
panic wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of how good the deep learning network is on its own, the algorithm described in the DeepMind paper is an improved tree search.

I don't think it's accurate to call AlphaGo 'improved tree search' the way that Deep Blue was improved tree search. You could with equal justice call it an improved neural net.

The correct characterization is that it's a hybrid of deep learning and tree search. It's also a hybrid in the feature representation for the algorithm. There are raw features (board state), but there are also handcrafted features for the tree search.
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