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Ask HN: Moving Out of Silicon Valley because of housing? Where to?

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Re: Ask HN: Moving Out of Silicon Valley because of housing? Where to?

#61

Post by Vnjjkkll »

jtreminio wrote: post #51
Vnjjkkll wrote: post #2

NYC. Its still expensive obviously but more diverse. Not a mono-culture. Cold/long winters are not much fun. But there are nicer small classic american town in NY and Long Island, which can be affordable. Train commute is ok if you can work remote a couple days per week and get some work done on the trains. Beaches are close, skiing upstate is decent. Lots of opportunity in NYC/Brooklyn. A very nice home (4 bedroom,…

> A very nice home (4 bedroom, good schools, 1 acre, pretty area) can be had for under $1M. Holy shit. A very nice home in DFW can go for ~$300k.

Sure of course but probably salary is much less, and less other things to do, etc. DFW is probably one of the best values and COL/salary ratios though.

Re: Ask HN: Moving Out of Silicon Valley because of housing? Where to?

#62

Post by throwaway376183 »

spillihp wrote: post #8

Want to put in a quick plug for Sacramento. Great quality of life here, generally great weather (sometimes a little hot in summer, but sunny most of the year), affordable housing with rents between $500 and $1,000 (and affordable to buy a house - still good places available for under $300k), nice neighborhoods, great amenities, bars, restaurants, all that. Good access to awesome outdoors. And really easy to get to th…

Lately I've been very interested in moving to Sacramento. I like just about everything I read about the city (can't really say the same about SF/SV).

My main worry is that searches for local dev jobs turn up almost nothing. I don't think I could handle a 2+ hour commute daily. Any advice?

Re: Ask HN: Moving Out of Silicon Valley because of housing? Where to?

#63

Post by Vnjjkkll »

brianwawok wrote: post #13
Vnjjkkll wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a vibrant startup culture in NYC. Finance jobs may pay more but probably not worth it due to culture and longer hours, more issues/rules around security, etc.

I mean Chicago has tons and tons of startups, and a "startup culture". For example http://www.1871.com/ . But finding startups that money similar to normal companies? Not super easy. NYC startups even if they paid more, COL is 3x what Chicago is and not that far from SF... so seems a bad place to go if your goal is to "buy a house"

Well in my personal experience the salary of senior devs in very early-stage startups i've been involved with in NYC get around get about 150K + options (text processing, machine learning, AI-stuff). With 2 incomes and some savings put aside, certainly its affordable, much more so than SF from what i've seen. The dev salary here may be higher because they need to complete with wall street firms, and there are overall less very senior devs in NYC compared to SF.

Re: Ask HN: Moving Out of Silicon Valley because of housing? Where to?

#64

Post by jseliger »

seancoleman wrote: post #27

Phoenix is often not included when discussing tech cities, and I think it's a shame. I've lived here my entire life and have seen the startup and tech scenes evolve and mature having started 2 companies here. Just in the past few years, the number of quality startups and investments have soared and I believe we're at the inflection point that will make Phoenix equitable to SV. We have a low cost of living, affordable…

Phoenix is often not included when discussing tech cities, and I think it's a shame

I've spent time in Phoenix. It's the land of enormous roads and parking lots. It's almost impossible to get anywhere without a car. Traffic is horrendous all the time. There is barely a functioning downtown. The urban layout isn't conducive to the density necessary to really sustain light rail. Yes, I know about the line that goes from downtown to the airport to Tempe, and yes, it is better than nothing.

The cost of living is low, but people prefer Austin to Phoenix or Dallas because Austin has some there, there. It is striking to me how much Phoenix does not resemble the ideal startup town Paul Graham describes in "Can you buy a Silicon Valley?" (http://www.paulgraham.com/maybe.html):

It will be easier in proportion to how much your town resembles San Francisco. Do you have good weather? Do people live downtown, or have they abandoned the center for the suburbs? Would the city be described as "hip" and "tolerant," or as reflecting "traditional values?" Are there good universities nearby? Are there walkable neighborhoods? Would nerds feel at home? If you answered yes to all these questions, you might be able not only to pull off this scheme, but to do it for less than a million per startup.

Phoenix reflects "traditional values," as the horrific, racist elected sherrif demonstrates: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio, and it has few walkable neighborhoods.

Re: Ask HN: Moving Out of Silicon Valley because of housing? Where to?

#65

Post by raverbashing »

atomic77 wrote: post #40

In Canada, Montreal is a great city with reasonable living costs and a decent tech scene (esp game development). Climate will probably scare away anyone not originally from the east coast or midwest though. Toronto and Vancouver, despite having some pluses, unfortunately can't be recommended to anyone that cares about cost of housing.

I, unfortunately, will have to downplay this suggestion

If you don't know French some opportunities are not at your reach

There aren't a lot of positions, depending on the area, also the market seem to put outsiders in 2nd place (basically anyone that's not from Quebec)

Re: Ask HN: Moving Out of Silicon Valley because of housing? Where to?

#66

Post by woud420 »

raverbashing wrote: post #65
atomic77 wrote: post #40

In Canada, Montreal is a great city with reasonable living costs and a decent tech scene (esp game development). Climate will probably scare away anyone not originally from the east coast or midwest though. Toronto and Vancouver, despite having some pluses, unfortunately can't be recommended to anyone that cares about cost of housing.

I, unfortunately, will have to downplay this suggestion If you don't know French some opportunities are not at your reach There aren't a lot of positions, depending on the area, also the market seem to put outsiders in 2nd place (basically anyone that's not from Quebec)

Although I agree with the downplaying of the suggestion, I really disagree with the reasons.

Most companies I've worked with in Montreal, english is often the main language in the office (almost to a fault) and companies are STARVED for talent. It's very, very hard to hire people in Montreal, there's a lot of competition (like pretty much anywhere else). Outsiders are very welcomed if they bring well needed help.

However, salaries are very low, taxes incredibly high and while real estate is affordable, don't expect to live close to the city or to have a lot of money in your pocket at the end of the day.

Re: Ask HN: Moving Out of Silicon Valley because of housing? Where to?

#67

Post by HelloMcFly »

sf_rob wrote: post #56
HelloMcFly wrote: post #52

Well, I'll give a plug for a different city: Atlanta. My wife and I moved from Atlanta to Seattle a few years back, and while we love the PNW we're definitely looking forward to moving back this summer. Seattle is wonderful, but the traffic has gotten noticeably worse since we've been here, and housing just never worked for us. Atlanta has a lot of opportunity, including in the tech space. It's no Seattle or SF, obvi…

As a fellow former Atlantan, I'm going to disagree. Atlanta has a lot of cool stuff going on, but I find the food, drink, scenery, and to a lesser extent the people better in Seattle/Portland/SF. Now Atlanta is a good city and the pay/cost of living is very good. There's a pretty solid tech scene, but not a great startup environment IMO.

It's definitely not a startup environment, and I should have clarified that given the crowd.

The west coast has more variety of beer, and that will be a big loss. However, for my taste buds I'll take many of the restaurants in Atlanta over SF or Seattle most days (though I'll miss the Sushi and Korean food greatly). Maybe that means I'm not a super healthy person.

And I definitely disagree on the people. We found people in Atlanta to be much friendlier and more approachable than in Seattle (and my wife felt similarly for SF). I also feel there's more opportunity to form relationships with people of diverse backgrounds. I've found Seattle somewhat colder and much more uniform from a people personality perspective, though we've certainly made great friends here.

The scenery is worse as PNW is world class, but the weather is way better. On balance it is a wash for me, but since I'm a biker and not a snow sports person I'm looking forward to a flatter environment in general.

For what it's worth, I've never spent more than a weekend in Portland. Also for what it's worth, we're moving back for a job offer received, we're not fleeing this part of the country. But the housing prices would have pushed us out eventually (which is insane given our life situation, frankly).

Re: Ask HN: Moving Out of Silicon Valley because of housing? Where to?

#68

Post by brianwawok »

Vnjjkkll wrote: post #63
brianwawok wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean Chicago has tons and tons of startups, and a "startup culture". For example http://www.1871.com/ . But finding startups that money similar to normal companies? Not super easy. NYC startups even if they paid more, COL is 3x what Chicago is and not that far from SF... so seems a bad place to go if your goal is to "buy a house"

Well in my personal experience the salary of senior devs in very early-stage startups i've been involved with in NYC get around get about 150K + options (text processing, machine learning, AI-stuff). With 2 incomes and some savings put aside, certainly its affordable, much more so than SF from what i've seen. The dev salary here may be higher because they need to complete with wall street firms, and there are overall…

150k is renting a small apartment in NYC though.

Re: Ask HN: Moving Out of Silicon Valley because of housing? Where to?

#69

Post by thesusanmarie »

jseliger wrote: post #64
seancoleman wrote: post #27

Phoenix is often not included when discussing tech cities, and I think it's a shame. I've lived here my entire life and have seen the startup and tech scenes evolve and mature having started 2 companies here. Just in the past few years, the number of quality startups and investments have soared and I believe we're at the inflection point that will make Phoenix equitable to SV. We have a low cost of living, affordable…

Phoenix is often not included when discussing tech cities, and I think it's a shame I've spent time in Phoenix. It's the land of enormous roads and parking lots. It's almost impossible to get anywhere without a car. Traffic is horrendous all the time. There is barely a functioning downtown. The urban layout isn't conducive to the density necessary to really sustain light rail. Yes, I know about the line that goes fro…

Of course Phoenix doesn't resemble Silicon Valley or SF and I think its important to note that we don't intend to try and replicate or be that - no market can. The Phoenix MSA is indeed car-centric and that's not going to change a great deal. However, the downtown areas are beginning to develop into more true urban centers: http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/blog/business/2016/02/get...

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/blog/techflash/2016/02/an...

Unfortunately the Maricopa County sheriff is often in the headlines, but those of us who live here can speak to the diversity and inclusiveness. The business community strongly supports this, particularly through initiatives such as ONE Community: http://www.onecommunity.co/arizona/phoenix/news/openaz-unity...

Re: Ask HN: Moving Out of Silicon Valley because of housing? Where to?

#70

Post by Cshelton »

Vnjjkkll wrote: post #61
jtreminio wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A very nice home (4 bedroom, good schools, 1 acre, pretty area) can be had for under $1M. Holy shit. A very nice home in DFW can go for ~$300k.

Sure of course but probably salary is much less, and less other things to do, etc. DFW is probably one of the best values and COL/salary ratios though.

Tech salaries are really strong in Dallas. The pay increase I'd get from moving to SF or NYC would be offset and reduced further by taxes/COL.
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