Live data from Hacker News

Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

syonyk.blogspot.com

351–360 of 367 posts

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#351
post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a government installation. People don't switch jobs here very much. Tires and oil changes are the two biggest service jobs on cars these days, since everything else is so reliable. But on a 10-year-old car, it's entirely possible to do more substantial repairs thanks to the OBD-II service tools that are available. You can get one of these scanners for $100 now (or less for a crappier one), look up any codes t…

I'm well aware of that, I've personally changed my own oil, replaced the starter on an ex's car, replaced my mass airflow sensor, and have my own OBD-II scanner (crappy one). I'm not sure why this thread turned into multiple attempts to convince me that independent mechanics are a good value that can do the same or better work than a dealer. I never claimed they couldn't, I stated that I don't think most people have…

>I'm not sure why this thread turned into multiple attempts to convince me that independent mechanics are a good value that can do the same or better work than a dealer. I never claimed they couldn't

Yeah, I'm not sure how that happened.

>I very well could be wrong, I was stating my opinion based on what I've seen and experienced.

I'm not sure there's any easy way of proving it one way or the other really. Personally, I still see plenty of independent mechanic businesses; I live down the street from two of them now, at a prior residence a year ago in a totally different state, I lived down the street from another one that was constantly busy and had people working there at very late hours to get all the work done. Then why I go to dealerships (I was shopping for a car a while back) I find them all closed all day Sunday, and closed early on other days. If your service department were busy, you wouldn't be closed on the weekends.

So again, I don't think we can prove anything either way here, and I'm not so sure about "the vast majority of people having trusted mechanics", but I really don't think that the vast majority of car owners use dealerships for all their service. I think that people use them when their car is brand-new (because it's covered by warranty), and I think owners of not-too-old luxury brands (BWM, etc.) probably use dealerships more often, however I think people who own cars that are 10+ years old probably rarely use dealerships, if ever. People who have less money to spend on cars, and who buy used cars (or keep cars a long time) I believe are naturally going to look for better deals for car service, and that's going to rule out stealerships very quickly.

As for YourMechanic, I hadn't heard of that, but it sounds like a great idea. But if it's successful, I think that shows that a lot of people want a trusted (non-dealership) mechanic, even if they don't currently have one. Also, don't forget, a lot of people these days are more mobile, and move around from time to time, so they'll need a new mechanic when they move.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#352
post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm well aware of that, I've personally changed my own oil, replaced the starter on an ex's car, replaced my mass airflow sensor, and have my own OBD-II scanner (crappy one). I'm not sure why this thread turned into multiple attempts to convince me that independent mechanics are a good value that can do the same or better work than a dealer. I never claimed they couldn't, I stated that I don't think most people have…

>I'm not sure why this thread turned into multiple attempts to convince me that independent mechanics are a good value that can do the same or better work than a dealer. I never claimed they couldn't Yeah, I'm not sure how that happened. >I very well could be wrong, I was stating my opinion based on what I've seen and experienced. I'm not sure there's any easy way of proving it one way or the other really. Personally…

I found a datasource, it's dated (2011) it shows people trust their "shop" which could be a dealer, chain, or independent. With a 37% split going to independent and 30% to dealerships. I think you are right that we probably wont find any data on if people have a trusted mechanic since this also shows that there is a lot of price shopping going on.

But with all that said, in the broader conversation I'd say I was wrong. Even if you don't have a trusted independent mechanic more people prefer that option, even if they use a different one every time, over the dealership.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2011/12/survey-consu...

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#353
post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 5. American designed, American built, no $$$ going to questionable oil interests. I don't see what that has to do with America, except for 'Murica f'yeah > 7. Over-The-Air software updates that actually add useful features. No, I don't need to go to the service center to update my software. LOL! ROFL > 8. It drives itself? Autopilot! Nice! Don't many cars have that to the limited degree already allowed by law?

> I don't see what that has to do with America, except for 'Murica f'yeah I enjoy buying locally built products when possible, especially when those products are superior to anything else available. > ROFL Get off the floor and tell me what's so funny. > Don't many cars have that to the limited degree already allowed by law? No. Model S and Model X are the only cars available that drive themselves. Some other cars ha…

Search "hack car freeway wifi" in the search engine of your choice. Granted, not a Tesla, but is that only a matter of time and willpower or actually supporting your argument?

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#354
post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see what that has to do with America, except for 'Murica f'yeah I enjoy buying locally built products when possible, especially when those products are superior to anything else available. > ROFL Get off the floor and tell me what's so funny. > Don't many cars have that to the limited degree already allowed by law? No. Model S and Model X are the only cars available that drive themselves. Some other cars ha…

Search "hack car freeway wifi" in the search engine of your choice. Granted, not a Tesla, but is that only a matter of time and willpower or actually supporting your argument?

> Granted, not a Tesla, but is that only a matter of time and willpower or actually supporting your argument?

Supporting my argument. Tesla sits on an encrypted VPN, good luck with that. Maybe if you break into Tesla HQ?

You're better off going after the bluetooth (the key fobs/car are bluetooth) or NFC (the key fobs/car have NFC in case batteries die in fobs). There's also an ethernet port of sorts in the vehicle, although it has been disconnected with latest firmware.

Anyway, when it comes to Tesla, you'll have better chances of hacking into it with physical access. You are definitely not getting access to my car with "wifi".

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#355
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But think about it from another perspective: someone purchases Tesla car, decided to service it himself without sufficient knowledge, then later he resells his car to another individual, the person who buys his car enables the autopilot mode on a car and because of the poor service quality/mistake the original owner did to a car the autopilot goes crazy and steers your car into a brick wall, everyone will blame Tesla…

But you can say that about any kind of car, not just Teslas. You could have a guy fiddle with critical system X of a car (maybe suspension or steering) that if done incorrectly could endanger the lives of several people. How do you ensure that a used car is safe to drive? This is a solved problem: you bring the car to a professional mechanic and have him inspect the car, or inspect it yourself if you have the right k…

> you bring the car to a professional mechanic and have him inspect the car, or inspect it yourself if you have the right knowledge

Or, a second hand Tesla might have a much higher market value if it has a recent inspection certificate from Tesla. Tesla don't have to enforce this on this basis because the market will.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#356
Putting a lithium battery on a traditional car doesn't make the mobility industry more sustainable. Tesla's are still going to end up in car graveyards.. To be sustainable, we need to rethink how cars are designed from the bottom up. Especially to sustain the growth in car-as-a-service (i.e. Higher usage rates) we need modular design to have replaceable and upgradable parts, without throwing away what works.

That's why we created OSVehicle,the first open source electric vehicle platform. www.osvehicle.com

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#357
post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Search "hack car freeway wifi" in the search engine of your choice. Granted, not a Tesla, but is that only a matter of time and willpower or actually supporting your argument?

> Granted, not a Tesla, but is that only a matter of time and willpower or actually supporting your argument? Supporting my argument. Tesla sits on an encrypted VPN, good luck with that. Maybe if you break into Tesla HQ? You're better off going after the bluetooth (the key fobs/car are bluetooth) or NFC (the key fobs/car have NFC in case batteries die in fobs). There's also an ethernet port of sorts in the vehicle, a…

> Tesla sits on an encrypted VPN, good luck with that

Well, if you say so. Still, what about the locally built products? Oil isn't the only import needed for a traditional car.

The ethernet port, bluetooth/NFC key fobs all the chips, are made in china no doubt, maybe even many engine parts. Recources are exploited from mines outside America under bad conditions. The energy to load the battery is generated partially from fracked fossil fuel. America supports Saudis for a bit more than just oil and they sure don't care what the tax money was generated from. * In 2014, about 27% of the petroleum consumed by the United States was imported from foreign countries.* [1]. Half the American designers are probably immigrated from India and China.

Our visions of the great US of A diverge a little.

[1] https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=32&t=6

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#358
post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Between the touch screen control screaming "Look! Cool! Future! Oh yeah we had to sacrifice tactile feedback and usability when driving while ignoring fifty years of safety research but Cool!", trying to be a fast car but only really good for 0-60 in a straight line (and literally incapable of doing five laps at Laguna Seca without overheating and going into limp home mode), no OBD-2 port as another poster pointed ou…

> Oh yeah we had to sacrifice tactile feedback Nonsense. You need tactile feedback while driving. You will not be using the center console while driving. You will not even be looking at it. All of the stuff you need while driving is tactile. > trying to be a fast car but only really good for 0-60 in a straight line LOL. I sense hurt feelings. > no OBD-2 port as another poster pointed out Why would it need an OBD-2 po…

> Why would it need an OBD-2 port when it has an API? > http://docs.timdorr.apiary.io/#

Why would any web site support HTTP when you can use their proprietary protocol, only unofficially documented by some random dude by reverse engineering.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#359
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd think that out of the thousands of people who have already bought one of these cars, there might be one out there with both the skills and desire to actually own what they paid for On the other hand, it could just be that those who want to really own their cars would not consider buying a Tesla anyway, and those who have the skills are too scared of the legal aspects. I think at the moment, electric cars are st…

> The aftermarket community for existing cars basically doesn't care about emissions --- one of the biggest attractions of an electric. You've clearly never been behind the wheel of a Tesla. Please go drive one. Emissions were literally the very last reason for buying the car for me.

The biggest reason to buy an Model S is to project an image, which is, I'm rich and into technology.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a new (to me) motorcycle last week. It's a 2008 and it has loads of electronics (compared to my old bike). One of them is an immobiliser that deactivates when it detects a transponder inside the key. The motorcycle comes with three keys: a red one and two black ones. The black ones will turn on the motorcycle but can't be copied. The red one can be copied and is intended as backup in case you lose the black…

That sounds terrible. The absence of crap like that is one of the things I love about riding a motorcycle. Does the manufacturer of that motorcycle not realize that they are sacrificing one of their competitive advantages by importing that kind of complexity? I think maybe I'm not going to sell my 1995 Nighthawk after all! Sounds like it might make more sense to just keep it running, simple and straightforward, witho…

I think it's mostly to discourage theft.
Post reply on HN