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Proselint

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Re: Proselint

#91
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people feel you should never ever say things like "more unique", "most unique" etc Which I think is equally as misguided as trying to force "data" to be plural, and that "less than 3" is wrong

In a mathematical context, something is either "unique" or it is not. There is no in-between state. But you can easily define it to mean something else. And you can even make "uniqueness" comparable.

I think it's obvious that what people mean is that "more unique" = "unique in more dimensions" or "the degree to which this differs from the norm is greater".

E.g. (2, 4, 7) (2, 4, 8) (2, 8, 4) (2, 4, 7) (1, 4, 8) (0, 9, 3) (987, 4, 7)

When asked what are the "most unique" sets in that list, you'd probably be acting deliberately obtuse if you chose anything but one of the last two.

Re: Proselint

#92
Going through the example, it comes up with:

> Get that off of me before I catch on fire! > Needless variant. 'catch fire' is the preferred form

I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "catch fire" rather than "catch on fire".

From the UK if that changes anything.

Re: Proselint

#93
post #84

What is wrong with "very smart"? (line 86)

I worked w/ a guy who was good at editing my manuscripts. His opinion (which I agree with) was that the word "very" was almost always superfluous. You can delete it without affecting your message.

Re: Proselint

#94
post #91
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a mathematical context, something is either "unique" or it is not. There is no in-between state. But you can easily define it to mean something else. And you can even make "uniqueness" comparable.

I think it's obvious that what people mean is that "more unique" = "unique in more dimensions" or "the degree to which this differs from the norm is greater". E.g. (2, 4, 7) (2, 4, 8) (2, 8, 4) (2, 4, 7) (1, 4, 8) (0, 9, 3) (987, 4, 7) When asked what are the "most unique" sets in that list, you'd probably be acting deliberately obtuse if you chose anything but one of the last two.

I guess it's understandable but why not choose an appropriate word like "different" and keep "unique" a very strong word?

Re: Proselint

#95
post #92

Going through the example, it comes up with: > Get that off of me before I catch on fire! > Needless variant. 'catch fire' is the preferred form I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "catch fire" rather than "catch on fire". From the UK if that changes anything.

"To catch fire" is a relatively common term, at least in the USA. "To catch on fire" probably equally so.

Re: Proselint

#96
post #80
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a mathematical context, something is either "unique" or it is not. There is no in-between state. But you can easily define it to mean something else. And you can even make "uniqueness" comparable.

In a mathematical world you operate with abstract objects. In the real word - you need to abstract things; before that everything is unique; after that - well, depends on your abstraction. So unless you talk about mathematics, things can be more or less unique.

This is a excellent and subtle comment. You seem like someone with a tolerance for philosophical nit-picking. Please forgive me if I'm mistaken.

Instead of saying everything is unique we could simply say that there is nothing. A thing is itself an abstraction. The concrete world is without inherently distinct things. We must abstract things for "unique" to describe something at all. As you implied, this process is arbitrary. Every way in which you could abstract things implies a distinct notion of "uniqueness". To simply select one "uniqueness" (like mathematics) is arbitrary. But to consider every possible "uniqueness" equally is also arbitrary. Without prioritizing forms of "uniqueness" we can only construct a partially ordered set. So when you void a fixation on mathematics, things can be more, less or "incomparably" unique.

I suspect most pairs of things are incomparably unique. Further, I suspect most binary qualities are predominantly incomparable. I don't know that you should never say things like "more unique" but it might be fair to issue a warning in a prose linter. Any binary quality used as a continuum requires an arbitrary combination of it's distinct forms. If this isn't specified then it only has meaning for those who already know what it is.

Re: Proselint

#97
post #10

I question how useful a tool like this is for a skilled writer. Prose isn't code. Many key elements of good writing are based around the idea of knowing the rules, and then carefully breaking them .

> I question how useful a tool like this is for a skilled writer.

For a skilled writer who takes time to write "proper" prose, probably not very useful.

But for me, as a non-native english speaker who writes a lot of short english texts (emails, documentation, HN comments and so on), it could probably help.

For example, since I write both US and British English every day, a consistency warning is certainly helpful. I would also like a linter to help the flow of text, for example by pointing out when you aren't mixing up your sentence lengths in a good way. Oh, in that last sentence I accidentally missed that I used first person in the sentence before that! A linter as a chrome plugin would have pointed that out.

Re: Proselint

#98

While the idea is interesting, I do worry about the proliferation of linting to prose. Especially the hint about authoritative near the end of the article. Linters turn guidelines into steadfast rules in programming, removing all ability to use judgement if you want your PR merged. I personally want less of that, not more.

How is standardization a bad thing in programming? in prose I can see the argument, but in programming you should always aim for standardization for code maintenance.

Re: Proselint

#99
post #34

This sounds interesting. As a bit of constructive criticism, please put some examples high up. You tell me it does cool things. Great, show me. I've looked about on the various pages and can see only one example and I don't understand it: text.md:0:10: wallace.uncomparables Comparison of an uncomparable: 'unique' can not be compared. What's the context of this, what's the error it would have caught in my writing? The…

Some people feel you should never ever say things like "more unique", "most unique" etc Which I think is equally as misguided as trying to force "data" to be plural, and that "less than 3" is wrong

It's a linter, it's going to have some kind of "false positives." Maybe you could put an annotation that tells the linter you're sure that you mean it.

Semi-off-topic, but the notion of "more unique" reminds me of Sapolsky's TED talk about humans as the "uniquiest" animal.

https://www.ted.com/talks/robert_sapolsky_the_uniqueness_of_...

Re: Proselint

#100
I'm a writer and editor, and I dislike the idea of this tool quite a bit.

1. Writing isn't coding. In coding, you can do various types of "cargo cult programming" and "copypasta" and what-have-you -- in other words, as long as the code runs you don't necessarily have to know why or how a programming idiom or convention works, or how/why expressing it one way in code is better than expressing it another way in code. This definitionally untrue with writing. If you don't know the why/how of something, then it's better for you to botch it and let the reader attempt to parse it so at least they know what they're dealing with and how to interpret it ("oh, this guy's a non-native speaker, so I'll adjust my reception accordingly" or "ah, this person is kind of clueless about the whole sexist language thing, which is good info for me.").

2. 90% of writing style advice falls into one of two categories: a) hotly debated, and b) totally wrong. Most of it is in the latter category, and this includes Strunk & White (just use google for numerous takedowns of that text). I looked through the PR queue and saw that it consists of eager coders finding style advice from various sources and trying to work that into the tool. That is terrible, terrible, terrible... This will guarantee that the tool will represent a collection of awful writing advice gleaned from dubious sources and wielded with unforgiving ignorance.

This tool may be a terrible idea, but the idea of automated prose linting is not terrible. Most beginner to intermediate writers have tics, and as an editor I often have a couple of writer-specific find/replace things I do when I get a new piece from a particular writer (e.g. "this person uses 'however' when she means 'but', and this person overuses these four business jargon terms, etc.). If editors were able to easily compose and execute writer-specific linters from within something like Wordpress, that would probably be pretty great.

But this particular command line tool is destined to be either totally unused or massively abused.

I'm sorry, I hate to be mean... or, actually, there is a small part of me that enjoys playing Mr. Party Pooper when I see a mob of enthusiastic programmers trying to tie down some great cultural Gulliver with a thousand tiny little automated, black-and-white rules.

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