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Satoshi Roundtable Thoughts

gavinandresen.ninja

11–20 of 116 posts

Re: Satoshi Roundtable Thoughts

#11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They have maybe 12 months of runway before everyone loses faith and sells Yeah, and I'm gonna stop using the internet because the http protocol isn't exactly how I want it. Grow up.

Yes i did. And moved to HTTPS instead. Not having fate our doubting the backing technology is a very legitimate reason to move your money eslewhere

HTTPS is just HTTP over SSL. It's still the same protocol, just tunneled through a transport security layer.

Re: Satoshi Roundtable Thoughts

#12

So this is #3 of the Satoshi Roundtable notes and opinions that have made it to HN, as far as I can tell (I was initially confused and thought this was a re-submission of Brian Armstrong's notes https://medium.com/@barmstrong/what-happened-at-the-satoshi-... ). As someone who has dabbled into the bitcoin and block chain area but never seriously, all of these reports and the constant reporting of the serious issues fa…

Your impression is spot on. Nevertheless there are still lots of people who have lots of money in it and that's part of the problem why there is so much controversy and why some people don't want to move away from their position.

If you are interested in blockchain technology you don't have to go to bitcoin. There are lots of other cryptocurrencies where you could learn about it.

Ethereum is currently the new kid on the block. Ethereum is often described as "Bitcoin 2.0". Better technology, better leadership, no toxic community, IMHO it looks like how bitcoin should look like (at least for now, who knows what it will be like in a year).

Because of that lots of money has been going to Ethereum altely, even long time hodlers of bitcoin have sold bitcoin to get some ether.

Re: Satoshi Roundtable Thoughts

#13

So this is #3 of the Satoshi Roundtable notes and opinions that have made it to HN, as far as I can tell (I was initially confused and thought this was a re-submission of Brian Armstrong's notes https://medium.com/@barmstrong/what-happened-at-the-satoshi-... ). As someone who has dabbled into the bitcoin and block chain area but never seriously, all of these reports and the constant reporting of the serious issues fa…

There is near complete consensus, see:

https://medium.com/@bitcoinroundtable/bitcoin-roundtable-con...

Nearly every developer, along with the vast majority of miners, have agreed to this.

The group that did not agree (Coinbase, 2 developers, and some small miners) is extremely good at social media and has done a great job of spreading a false story of "serious scaling problems" and "developers can't reach consensus". It's simply not true.

They want to take over the bitcoin network with a fork, which will follow different rules, called "Bitcoin Classic". This is their second attempt at a takeover, the last was the failed "Bitcoin XT" fork. There is no sane reason to fork the network short of trying to take control of the protocol.

Here is the roadmap that the main Bitcoin ("core") team has put together and is working on:

https://bitcoincore.org/en/2015/12/23/capacity-increases-faq...

Re: Satoshi Roundtable Thoughts

#14
post #9

There is a revolution going on in Bitcoin land. Very similar to how dictatorship gets overthrown in the real world. In the real world, dictators fight with censorship and violent force. In Bitcoin land these are social media censorship and DDoS attacks. The main Bitcoin forum on Reddit is censored heavy handed. No criticism allowed, mentions of alternative software or forums get deleted right away. People who run alt…

Interesting. You're even getting down voted here without explanation. EDIT: Well you used to be grey and at the bottom. Now you're up top.

There has been an enormous and coordinated effort to disrupt the Bitcoin community, and many of the actions have been far from subtle. /r/bitcoin has been subject to spam attacks, sockpuppets, brigade voting, and a huge number of manipulations.

The moderator team tried to control it, honest people became victim to heavy handed moderation, and a lot of damage was done.

The grandparent comment really does not seem genuine. Maybe I am disillusioned, but bitcoin's news aggregate presence feels like it's being very distorted.

Re: Satoshi Roundtable Thoughts

#15
Opinion is moving against the Core devs who currently control the code that nearly everyone is using to run the Bitcoin system. What the Bitcoin community is learning is that you cannot have a decentralized monetary system controlled by a centralized group of programmers with out running in to conflicts of interest. Decisions about the direction of Bitcoin's future should not be made by a few coders, and the people pulling their strings, behind closed doors. Bitcoin needs competing teams of developers. Miners and node operators need to use a variety of softwares in order to support an ecosystem of dev teams. These softwares must interoperate with one another but do not have to operate in exactly the same way. Consensus will come about when a sufficient number of dev teams decide to implement a certain feature and miners chose to run their code. The methods for voting for new features via the Bitvoin network are already established. As new features are implemented they should be developed by multiple teams in parallel so that there is less risk of catastrophic failure due to everyone running the same software with the same set of bugs. This concept runs contrary to how nearly every other software system we know works. Thus the current growing pains.

Ultimately crypto-currency will win out in some form. But please don't invest in it now. You'll only dilute the profits of those willing to take on early stage risks.

Re: Satoshi Roundtable Thoughts

#16
Can anyone point me to good resources to understanding the technical side of Bitcoin?

I tried to read the white paper but it glossed over technical details (for instance, what does "signing" actually entail?). Everything else is either very hand-wavey and high level or assumes you already know how it works.

I'm interesting in understanding the spec and potentially expanding on it or being able to understand the ongoing issues with Bitcoin

Re: Satoshi Roundtable Thoughts

#18
post #9

There is a revolution going on in Bitcoin land. Very similar to how dictatorship gets overthrown in the real world. In the real world, dictators fight with censorship and violent force. In Bitcoin land these are social media censorship and DDoS attacks. The main Bitcoin forum on Reddit is censored heavy handed. No criticism allowed, mentions of alternative software or forums get deleted right away. People who run alt…

> The main Bitcoin forum on Reddit is censored heavy handed. No criticism allowed, mentions of alternative software or forums get deleted right away.

This is simply not true. The only rule on the /r/bitcoin Reddit is not to promote these network fork attempts. This is not just alternative software, it is software that follows DIFFERENT rules from the main bitcoin software and would follow a different ledger history if a fork happened.

In fact talking about this topic, criticisms of developers and the like is practically all you see there, for the last 8 months!

You are not explaining the origin of the "please don't promote network forks" rule. ("Bitcoin XT", now "Bitcoin Classic").

The people pushing the need to fork would bombard the Reddit forum for many months, very likely with sockpuppets. They were extremely hostile and aggressive, down voting anyone who would disagree with them. Readers would notice their posts would instantly be scored negative only seconds after a post. This pro-fork group would harass the developers with personal attacks and threats, forcing some developers to leave due to the harm it was having on their mental health.

Only after this went on for a very long time did the moderators finally try to get things under control. The pro-fork crowd yelled “censorship”. But this is not censorship, it is long needed moderation.

> People who run alternative implementations of Bitcoin get DDoSed so heavy, that sometimes whole districts of cities get cut off from the internet.

The majority of the fork software run on freebie Amazon AWS servers:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/499bai/51_of_bitco...

Where do you get this claim that "whole districts of cities" are being cut off the internet?

Re: Satoshi Roundtable Thoughts

#19
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. You're even getting down voted here without explanation. EDIT: Well you used to be grey and at the bottom. Now you're up top.

There has been an enormous and coordinated effort to disrupt the Bitcoin community, and many of the actions have been far from subtle. /r/bitcoin has been subject to spam attacks, sockpuppets, brigade voting, and a huge number of manipulations. The moderator team tried to control it, honest people became victim to heavy handed moderation, and a lot of damage was done. The grandparent comment really does not seem genu…

The moderators of /r/bitcoin should explain why they automatically change the sort mode of specific threads to "Controversial" which effectively reverses the rank order. And why they have custom CSS which affects what comments appear hidden or not.

No other subreddit that I am aware of engages in this form of comment manipulation. I am not even a Bitcoin user but this sort of behaviour was extremely unusual.

Re: Satoshi Roundtable Thoughts

#20
Why should there be One True Bitcoin implementation? What should be worked on is creating an official protocol specification, which would allow competing implementations, that miners could freely choose from. Let a thousand flowers bloom.
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