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No One Knows What the F*** They're Doing (or "The 3 Types of Knowledge")

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Re: No One Knows What the F*** They're Doing (or "The 3 Types of Knowledge")

#61

Post by DLWormwood »

kqr2 wrote: post #28

Reminds me of the quote from Rumsfeld. Reformatted by http://www.slate.com/id/2081042/ The Unknown As we know, There are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know There are known unknowns. That is to say We know there are some things We do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, The ones we don't know We don't know.

Both Rumsfeld (and the article) missed the 4th type of knowledge: "unknown knowns." That is, things you know, but you don't realize you know yet. (Either you know it subconsciously, have knowledge from another domain you don't yet realize is appropriate to the job at hand, or you learned it before, forgot it, and only need a small reminder or mental jog to regain it.)

Re: No One Knows What the F*** They're Doing (or "The 3 Types of Knowledge")

#62

Post by bliss »

fnid2 wrote: post #2

Sometimes, in conversations with others, I hear them say with complete confidence stuff that I know is total crap. It's like I just can't get over how absolutely wrong they are and yet how absolutely right they believe they are. So I start wondering how many times I do exactly the same thing. I mean, how can I know what I don't know? How much is there? How do I even know if something I really believe is true or not?…

Do me a favour, save the child if it's in your power and think about all the possible parallel universe outcomes over a nice glass of chablis later.

Re: No One Knows What the F*** They're Doing (or "The 3 Types of Knowledge")

#63

Post by bliss »

wallflower wrote: post #8
[deleted] wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

Without getting too metaphysical here, beliefs can, if not shape, distort reality. For example, one of the purposes of fancy, polished, sleek TV automobile ads is to reassure buyers of that particular car that they made the right purchase ("Dude, that's my car!") Similarly, our beliefs are self-reinforcing. Like imagine you had a conflict with a co-worker because he wronged you in some way. Even if he tries to make u…

I don't believe that the purpose of advertisements is to reassure customers AFTER they've spent the money. That doesn't make sense to me. Future sale is influenced by good service over the length of ownership. I don't agree that post-sale ego-stroking is even a factor.

I do however believe and agree that beliefs are self reinforcing (see I failed again, just like I knew I would)

Re: No One Knows What the F*** They're Doing (or "The 3 Types of Knowledge")

#64

Post by pge »

I'm reminded of a saying I heard once:

Those that know and know that they know are wise, follow them. Those that know and know not that they know are asleep, wake them. Those that know not and know that they know not are students , teach them. Those that know not and know not that they know not are fools, shun them.

As the article notes, we're all a little of each, rather than one of the above, but for me, it captures it nicely.

Re: No One Knows What the F*** They're Doing (or "The 3 Types of Knowledge")

#65

Post by cynicalkane »

felixc wrote: post #41
tom_rath wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always bugged me how Rumsfeld was slagged for that statement. I found it a very clear explanation of the difficulty in assessing a chaotic environment.

Agreed. Much like the "series of tubes" comment from Stevens -- that's a perfectly good analogy, and one that technically-inclined people use all the time in some variant like "fat pipes". He said so much other ridiculous stuff that I can't understand why people picked on the one thing that almost made sense.

No, Stevens was mocked because he rambled like Grandpa Simpson about how staffers sent him "an Internet" that took 5 days to reach him because the tubes were clogged. "Series of tubes" is merely the most memorable quote from that bizarre stream of consciousness.

And, he was the guy in charge of regulating the Internet in the Senate.

Re: No One Knows What the F*** They're Doing (or "The 3 Types of Knowledge")

#66

Post by gfodor »

lqdshadow wrote: post #34
pyre wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The world rewards those who cause motion, who act. I hate to bring Godwin into this, but Hitler acted/caused motion, so did Stalin, so do a lot of bad people. Did the world really reward them?

They left enough of a mark with their motion that you readily brought up names and thought of actions. Fame is enough reward for some people, as is power and money. I did not exclude the possibility of punishments. The point is that, right or wrong, they made decisions. They lived. How many of us can say that we took a chance and really felt alive with that big decision? Maybe it is about starting a war with your nei…

Um. This post is more than a little scary. The philosophy of "act, don't think" is equally as dangerous as "think, but don't act."

Edit: A better way to put it. "Think, but don't act" can only destroy your life. "Act, but don't think" can destroy everyone's.

Re: No One Knows What the F*** They're Doing (or "The 3 Types of Knowledge")

#67

Post by milfot »

lqdshadow wrote: post #34
pyre wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The world rewards those who cause motion, who act. I hate to bring Godwin into this, but Hitler acted/caused motion, so did Stalin, so do a lot of bad people. Did the world really reward them?

They left enough of a mark with their motion that you readily brought up names and thought of actions. Fame is enough reward for some people, as is power and money. I did not exclude the possibility of punishments. The point is that, right or wrong, they made decisions. They lived. How many of us can say that we took a chance and really felt alive with that big decision? Maybe it is about starting a war with your nei…

The act of making the decision without care of consequence is what separates psychopaths and sociopaths from people.

Re: No One Knows What the F*** They're Doing (or "The 3 Types of Knowledge")

#69

Post by milfot »

10ren wrote: post #31

I find it helpful to think of these three categories as answers, questions, and neither. Being able to articulate your lack of knowledge as a question turns out to be a very powerful way to convert the last category into the first. Questions are important, according to Douglas Adams ("42") and Picasso ("computers are useless, they can only give you answers"). I also think of it as a doorway. Some doors are open to yo…

I like that.. questions, answers and everything else.

Though I think questions aren't there to give you answers, they only throw up more questions.. but I reckon they give you directions. When those questionable directions start to converge you know you are onto something you don't know. When those questions converge like an asymptote..ad infinitum, that's what we call answers.

Doubt scares people, they just want to know where the line ends. But in the real world the only way find such an direction is trial and error.. i think.

Re: No One Knows What the F*** They're Doing (or "The 3 Types of Knowledge")

#70

Post by lpsmith »

cynicalkane wrote: post #65
felixc wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Much like the "series of tubes" comment from Stevens -- that's a perfectly good analogy, and one that technically-inclined people use all the time in some variant like "fat pipes". He said so much other ridiculous stuff that I can't understand why people picked on the one thing that almost made sense.

No, Stevens was mocked because he rambled like Grandpa Simpson about how staffers sent him "an Internet" that took 5 days to reach him because the tubes were clogged. "Series of tubes" is merely the most memorable quote from that bizarre stream of consciousness. And, he was the guy in charge of regulating the Internet in the Senate.

Indeed, even though a "series of tubes" is a relevant analogy, it's still plenty obvious that Senator Stevens is clueless with regard to the Internet.
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