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Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

syonyk.blogspot.com

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Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#111

Post by wlesieutre »

dmoy wrote: post #99
Spooky23 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may have luxury of feeling that way -- most people do not. The average age of the US auto fleet is significantly older than it once was. 10+ year old cars are like 5-7x more common than they were 10-15 year ago. Hell, I drive a 2003 model year car that isn't going anywhere.

Look if Cuba can drive around on their fleet of ridiculously old cars, then it can be done. It just might not be super easy or labor-cheap. I think what GP is getting at is if you start optimizing first for reuse, there's a lot of cars we wouldn't need to build.

Mostly just wanted to point out that there are two numbers that drive how many new cars are sold:

1) Increase in total number of vehicles in use (relatively level 2008-2013, a quick google didn't find newer data)

2) Old vehicles taken off the road being replaced by new ones

The net effect of a particular person buying a slightly used car over a new one is basically nothing. The big picture only changes when people are choosing to keep an old car on the road for longer.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#112

Post by MisterBastahrd »

Vik1ng wrote: post #35
pravda wrote: post #19

I don't think anyone who buys a Telsa for 100 grand cares the slightest bit about being forced to pay overpriced dealer service rates. And it's not like a 'worn out' Telsa is going into the car crusher. Every part is going to be pulled from it and sold on eBay. I look forward to being able to buy a Telsa motor for cheap on eBay. Maybe in 2026.

Not every Tesla is 100k. Some start out below 70k when you consider tax initiatives. With gas savings etc. those are things people will consider who might have gotten a 5-Series otherwise. Also used car market. people who pay 100k often don't drive it 8, 10 or more years - they get something new before that. Person who buys a $50k CPO car and maybe soon even lower will care. Then there is the 35k Model 3 whee it will…

70k is still a ridiculous luxury price for a vehicle. If you buy at BMW levels, prepare for BMW level service prices.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#113

Post by Spooky23 »

mikeash wrote: post #93
Spooky23 wrote: post #71

It's pretty easy. They don't want an aftermarket for the cars because the batteries will wear out, essentially cannot be replaced, and you'll see lots of Teslas in the side of the road. I still don't understand why these cars exist. You pay a premium that vastly exceeds the fuel savings vs a comperable gasoline vehicle. The warm fuzzy feeling associated with saving the earth is low value to me. They also aren't magic…

Why do you say the batteries cannot be replaced? Swapping a battery literally takes five minutes. The cost of a new one is high, but will likely come down. As for why these cars exist, it's simple: they're awesome cars. They're powerful and quiet and have advanced technology. Never mind environmental concerns, not having to visit the gas station is just very convenient. Not emitting (local) pollution is a nice bonus,…

They can't be replaced because they are extremely expensive, and no mechanic is going to touch these thing without manuals and tools.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#114

Post by greggman »

Given the cars have various levels of self driving it would seem like the moment you mod your car Tesla would want nothing to do with you because you've changed something that could cause a crash.

That seems in some way different from a non-self driving car. Of course you should be able to do anything you want with your car but would it be unreasonable if Tesla basically disabled all their software and services at that moment? Basically making it clear if you mod the car they want no responsibility in what happens when it's self driving.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#115

Post by protomyth »

How is "Tampering with the Vehicle and its systems, including installation of non-Tesla accessories or parts or their installation, or any damage directly or indirectly caused by, due to or resulting from the installation or use of non-Tesla parts or accessories;" not a violation of Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act?

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#116

Post by mikeash »

kuschku wrote: post #6

This is an interesting topic. And an interesting idea for a hack: Hacking a Tesla Model S to work without any connection to Big Brother, eh, Tesla, I mean.

Pull the SIM card, don't connect to WiFi, and done. The SIM card is a little inconvenient to get to, but it wouldn't be much of a hack.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#117

Post by michaelmrose »

lacker wrote: post #18

None of this seems "throwaway" to me. It just means that rather than build a product that ends up being repaired by a distributed army of mechanics, they are going "full stack" and aiming to repair everything in-house. To me that seems like the ideal system - some people like the author might enjoy repairing their own cars, but I would rather not.

Everyone should have the option and this ought to be protected by law to some extent.

Allowing the manufacturer to determine where you can service your car has been tried before and it ended badly.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#118

Post by mikeash »

Spooky23 wrote: post #113
mikeash wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you say the batteries cannot be replaced? Swapping a battery literally takes five minutes. The cost of a new one is high, but will likely come down. As for why these cars exist, it's simple: they're awesome cars. They're powerful and quiet and have advanced technology. Never mind environmental concerns, not having to visit the gas station is just very convenient. Not emitting (local) pollution is a nice bonus,…

They can't be replaced because they are extremely expensive, and no mechanic is going to touch these thing without manuals and tools.

Expensive is different from "can't," and there's definitely one company whose mechanics can replace the battery.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#119

Post by pravda »

Spooky23 wrote: post #71

It's pretty easy. They don't want an aftermarket for the cars because the batteries will wear out, essentially cannot be replaced, and you'll see lots of Teslas in the side of the road. I still don't understand why these cars exist. You pay a premium that vastly exceeds the fuel savings vs a comperable gasoline vehicle. The warm fuzzy feeling associated with saving the earth is low value to me. They also aren't magic…

>You pay a premium that vastly exceeds the fuel savings vs a comperable gasoline vehicle.

It's a Veblen good! You pay the premium to advertise to the world that you're loaded! :-)

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#120

Post by Spooky23 »

dmoy wrote: post #99
Spooky23 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may have luxury of feeling that way -- most people do not. The average age of the US auto fleet is significantly older than it once was. 10+ year old cars are like 5-7x more common than they were 10-15 year ago. Hell, I drive a 2003 model year car that isn't going anywhere.

Look if Cuba can drive around on their fleet of ridiculously old cars, then it can be done. It just might not be super easy or labor-cheap. I think what GP is getting at is if you start optimizing first for reuse, there's a lot of cars we wouldn't need to build.

One of the side effects of emissions controls introduced in the late 90s is that cars are way more reliable. Basically these days most cars can easily achieve 200k miles or more without heroic labor.

I can't find a free source of the data, but I know in my state 10+ year old auto registrations spiked from 2008 onwards.

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