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Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

syonyk.blogspot.com

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Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#71

Post by Spooky23 »

It's pretty easy.

They don't want an aftermarket for the cars because the batteries will wear out, essentially cannot be replaced, and you'll see lots of Teslas in the side of the road.

I still don't understand why these cars exist. You pay a premium that vastly exceeds the fuel savings vs a comperable gasoline vehicle. The warm fuzzy feeling associated with saving the earth is low value to me.

They also aren't magical machines that don't break. A guy on my campus bought one about 18 mos one and it's been towed (presumably to NJ or Boston) 2-3 times. There goes the warm fuzzy feeling about saving the earth!

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#72

Post by mdorazio »

teacup50 wrote: post #60
charlesdenault wrote: post #7

If Tesla's longterm business strategy is to build a fleet of autonomous cars that operate in fractional ownership/lease models, of course it makes sense to build a car that has a Time will tell, and it will be interesting to see what the Model 3 has for a warranty, considering it's targeting a much broader market than the Model S/X.

Iterate quickly? Hardware is not software. The environmental cost alone of building a new car is outrageous. In addition to which, the SV2.0 "iterate quickly" ideal turns consumers into guinea pigs for half-baked and half-broken products that will just be updated out from under them.

And yet Apple produces a new $500+ phone every single year, intentionally leaving behind customers who are still using hardware more than 3 years old. I would say that the software iteration business model is making inroads into the hardware market as well, including in the automotive space. The solution to your guinea pigs point is a lease model, in which customers get a new car every two years to stay on top of developments. Or when autonomous cars are available, don't own a car at all - outsource all the hardware upgrades and maintenance to the manufacturer and pay for the service of getting from point A to point B when you need it (ala Uber).

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#73

Post by pravda »

gambiting wrote: post #32
pravda wrote: post #19

I don't think anyone who buys a Telsa for 100 grand cares the slightest bit about being forced to pay overpriced dealer service rates. And it's not like a 'worn out' Telsa is going into the car crusher. Every part is going to be pulled from it and sold on eBay. I look forward to being able to buy a Telsa motor for cheap on eBay. Maybe in 2026.

"And it's not like a 'worn out' Telsa is going into the car crusher." Well, it actually might. The article mentions it - if a car is deemed a "write off" by the insurance company(because cost of repair is quoted as >50% of the value of the car) then only Tesla can re-activate it. It's crazy, my dad used to have a car repair shop any buy dozens of cars that were "written off" by insurance companies, he would fix them,…

What happens to cars that are written-off and not bought by your dad or someone else who wants to fix them up and get them back on the road?

They go into the car crusher, but only after every part with any value is stripped from them.

(Yes, I agree that a functioning Telsa car is worth more then a bunch of Telsa parts)

If Mercedes could prevent people from buying written-off Mercedes cars, fixing them up and re-selling them, they certainly would!

Telsa can do this, and they have a phony-baloney reason for doing this (safety! protecting the children!), so it makes sense for them to do it.

And also, this is good for Telsa-buyers. If I spend 100-large, or 70-large on a Telsa, I don't want the hoi polloi to be able to purchase value-priced Telsas!

It's a win-win-win. Telsa gets more money, Telsa-buyers get a more exclusive brand, and hackers get cheaper Telsa parts on eBay!

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#74

Post by enraged_camel »

bliti wrote: post #48
lacker wrote: post #18

None of this seems "throwaway" to me. It just means that rather than build a product that ends up being repaired by a distributed army of mechanics, they are going "full stack" and aiming to repair everything in-house. To me that seems like the ideal system - some people like the author might enjoy repairing their own cars, but I would rather not.

It's not about the joy of auto repair. The vast majority of car owners cannot afford to repair their car. Even when parts are available. Having the technical documentation allows people to fix their cars. Tesla does not make the documentation available easily and parts, well, are pretty much as expensive as tesla wants them to be. Surely this is just a Tesla ownership issue. The problem is that Tesla will move to bui…

So far, we don't have any indication that Tesla will continue the same "closed-source" policies with their mass-market models. In fact they probably won't. They don't sell through dealers, so their repair "bandwidth" is obviously limited. They have got to be planning to allow third-party repairs at some point.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#75

Post by Vik1ng »

qume wrote: post #51
carlivar wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your window regulator will fail again within a year or two. (Learned this from experience installing Chinese-made replacement parts in my 90's VW)

I'm sure it will. $23 for a few years is Ok though... it only takes 30 mins to swap it out.

Certainly better that a $1200 Tesla Model S door handle that has to be activated ;D

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#76

Post by codedokode »

zanny wrote: post #54
valine wrote: post #12

This is very troubling to read. I can understand that tampering with an automobile might pose safety concerns. I can also understand that Tesla is trying to protect its brand. That being said, the fact that Tesla is monitoring individual cars in a way that they can detect when you're used the Ethernet port is seriously Orwellian. I can only imagine this will get worse as cars become more autonomous.

The ability to potentially break your car has never stopped any other car in history from having an accessible engine compartment. This is basically in tandem with the John Deere story - the consequences of proprietary software bleed into the physical world and cause an incredible amount of difficulty for people who do not even recognize what the problem is. Tesla can only get away with all this because of how digita…

Replacing hardware parts and replacing software is diferent. Unofficial "jaibreak" software updates can contain errors or backdoors or intentionally written malicious functions programmed to be acivated on a special day.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#78

Post by mdorazio »

phkahler wrote: post #24

This is dumb. Can you replace the tie rods, brake pads, tires? So long as the regular maintenance items can be handled I don't see a problem. Electronic parts on other cars are getting herd to replace too - they do things like record the VIN code upon first use and refuse to work in a different car, all in the name of anti-theft. Also, as people get excited about self driving cars, safety becomes a huge concern. You…

Yes, basic maintenance like you describe is entirely possible to do on your own or at any normal mechanic. Body work can be done at normal high-end body shops as well, with the caveat that getting replacement panels from Tesla is expensive and challenging due to their limited production capacity.

Source: Friend's Tesla recently needed some body work to repair a dented door.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#79

Post by tokipin »

People used to repair televisions but at some point it became cheaper to just buy a new one due to the tech/manufacturing being sufficiently evolved and commoditized/cheap, as well as the issues involved with repairing more complex circuitry.

Electric cars have the same potential, I think, because of their inherent simplicity. That potential already seems clear given that battery costs will keep falling.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#80

Post by userbinator »

qume wrote: post #57
Swizec wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should look up crash tests between cars considered safe in 1994 and modern cars. I saw one for two Renault Espace models. The old one was so crumply compared to the new one, that the new one didn't even deploy airbags because there was no need. Both got top safety ratings when new. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xQS-7heF-og

Oh, and one more thing. Go walk around the yard of a tow company. Be prepared to feel sick. You'll come away with the conclusion that the standard crash tests, which are well designed for common accidents, are still just a small minority of serious accidents. And the most horrifying thing that I came away with is the number of wrecks where there is 'car' where the passengers should be. Even in trucks and SUVs. The st…

Volvos definitely have a well-deserved reputation; for many years, their slogan was "Drive Safely", and they took it seriously.

Here's another video where the Volvo's passenger compartment doesn't even change shape while the other car's is completely crushed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt0oQsRvtWI

Although a downside is that, as the joke goes, "a Volvo doesn't need a crumple zone; it uses the other car." Not so good if the other car also happens to be a Volvo...

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