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Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

syonyk.blogspot.com

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Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#31

Post by huuu »

qume wrote: post #13

This is a good place to share this with geeks who may not be into cars: I drive a 1994 Mercedes (W124 chassis). One of the most reliable cars ever made. Simple to repair yourself. A TON of info available online for anything you could want to fix. Pretty much (probably 100%) of all parts on the car are available super cheap as chinese replacements because the model was around for so long and so many of them are still…

They are not environment friendly in cities. That's why a lot of European cities are banning them.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#32

Post by gambiting »

pravda wrote: post #19

I don't think anyone who buys a Telsa for 100 grand cares the slightest bit about being forced to pay overpriced dealer service rates. And it's not like a 'worn out' Telsa is going into the car crusher. Every part is going to be pulled from it and sold on eBay. I look forward to being able to buy a Telsa motor for cheap on eBay. Maybe in 2026.

"And it's not like a 'worn out' Telsa is going into the car crusher."

Well, it actually might. The article mentions it - if a car is deemed a "write off" by the insurance company(because cost of repair is quoted as >50% of the value of the car) then only Tesla can re-activate it. It's crazy, my dad used to have a car repair shop any buy dozens of cars that were "written off" by insurance companies, he would fix them, they would go through an official check-up process to be allowed on the road and that was it. He never had to ask Mercedes or Honda or Audi to "reactivate" their cars.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#33

Post by qume »

huuu wrote: post #31
qume wrote: post #13

This is a good place to share this with geeks who may not be into cars: I drive a 1994 Mercedes (W124 chassis). One of the most reliable cars ever made. Simple to repair yourself. A TON of info available online for anything you could want to fix. Pretty much (probably 100%) of all parts on the car are available super cheap as chinese replacements because the model was around for so long and so many of them are still…

They are not environment friendly in cities. That's why a lot of European cities are banning them.

It's gasoline. You're thinking of diesel.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#34

Post by carlivar »

qume wrote: post #13

This is a good place to share this with geeks who may not be into cars: I drive a 1994 Mercedes (W124 chassis). One of the most reliable cars ever made. Simple to repair yourself. A TON of info available online for anything you could want to fix. Pretty much (probably 100%) of all parts on the car are available super cheap as chinese replacements because the model was around for so long and so many of them are still…

Your window regulator will fail again within a year or two.

(Learned this from experience installing Chinese-made replacement parts in my 90's VW)

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#35

Post by Vik1ng »

pravda wrote: post #19

I don't think anyone who buys a Telsa for 100 grand cares the slightest bit about being forced to pay overpriced dealer service rates. And it's not like a 'worn out' Telsa is going into the car crusher. Every part is going to be pulled from it and sold on eBay. I look forward to being able to buy a Telsa motor for cheap on eBay. Maybe in 2026.

Not every Tesla is 100k. Some start out below 70k when you consider tax initiatives. With gas savings etc. those are things people will consider who might have gotten a 5-Series otherwise.

Also used car market. people who pay 100k often don't drive it 8, 10 or more years - they get something new before that. Person who buys a $50k CPO car and maybe soon even lower will care.

Then there is the 35k Model 3 whee it will matter a lot more

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#36

Post by vonmoltke »

lacker wrote: post #18

None of this seems "throwaway" to me. It just means that rather than build a product that ends up being repaired by a distributed army of mechanics, they are going "full stack" and aiming to repair everything in-house. To me that seems like the ideal system - some people like the author might enjoy repairing their own cars, but I would rather not.

First off, you may not want to repair your own car but the practice is pretty widespread, at least with simpler repairs. That's why the US has four nationwide auto parts store chains plus some big box stores like Wal-Mart that carry parts.

Second, this is not just about shade tree mechanics. This type of vertical integration means you have a sole source for parts and work if you buy a Tesla. Tesla can thus charge as much as their customers will bear without driving them to buy someone else's car. They have no incentive to pass supply chain or servicing efficiencies on to their customers. It's an arrangement the other car companies only dream of, which is why they keep trying to throw roadblocks in the way of third-party mechanics and parts manufacturers.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#37

Post by danans »

dingo_bat wrote: post #17
martin_bech wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you want a connection to Big Brother, you want free super charging, you want software updates, you want free internet access and navigation, you want the free Spotify Account. My Car wouldnt have AutoPark, Summon, Traffic Aware Cruise Control, Lane Assist, Spotify, Autopilot, 50 ekstra Horse Power and so on, without the software updates the connection to Big Brother provides. (Euro Spec S85D)

How is the extra HP related to the Big Brother connection?

Power output can be fine-tuned by software even in a conventional ICE vehicle:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_control_unit

Usually ECUs aren't updated online, but they can be updated by a dealer's computers.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#38

Post by MagnumOpus »

Retric wrote: post #21
qume wrote: post #13

This is a good place to share this with geeks who may not be into cars: I drive a 1994 Mercedes (W124 chassis). One of the most reliable cars ever made. Simple to repair yourself. A TON of info available online for anything you could want to fix. Pretty much (probably 100%) of all parts on the car are available super cheap as chinese replacements because the model was around for so long and so many of them are still…

@20.8 mpg city when new that's 10,000 gallons of fuel for 200k miles or ~30,000$ while gas is cheap. A Tesla model 3 (To Be Unveiled March 31st) is 35,000$, costs far less (~1/10th) for fuel, and is not 22 years old. That's why people care about electric cars.

10k gallons costs you $18,000 or less right now "while gas is cheap" - for a TCO of $20,000 in 20 years (plus cheap-ish repairs) - and you are driving a Merc.

The model 3 (once you can actually get hold of it) will cost you $35,000 up front, plus about $7,000 in electricity for 200k miles at prices of 13-15c/kWh, plus about two battery replacements - battery lifetime is 8 years or 125k miles - at $10,000ish a pop - for a TCO of $62,000 plus repairs.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#39

Post by carlivar »

lacker wrote: post #18

None of this seems "throwaway" to me. It just means that rather than build a product that ends up being repaired by a distributed army of mechanics, they are going "full stack" and aiming to repair everything in-house. To me that seems like the ideal system - some people like the author might enjoy repairing their own cars, but I would rather not.

Now imagine Apple got rid of independent repair shops (they are already heading in this direction pretty much). There would be outrage, and there's already unease with Apple's direction in these areas. Why does Tesla get a pass?

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#40

Post by mdasen »

lacker wrote: post #18

None of this seems "throwaway" to me. It just means that rather than build a product that ends up being repaired by a distributed army of mechanics, they are going "full stack" and aiming to repair everything in-house. To me that seems like the ideal system - some people like the author might enjoy repairing their own cars, but I would rather not.

You might not care about fixing your own vehicle, but you probably care about the cost of those repairs. If Tesla is the only company that can repair your car, they can easily charge many times the cost of the repairs. If Tesla is the only place that can repair your vehicle, you're left with two options: pay whatever Tesla demands to fix the vehicle or replace it with a new car. That's a very bad situation to be in because there's no control on the pricing.

Even if you say, "well, I could sell the Tesla rather than repair it," how many people are going to want to buy a broken Tesla? How do you explain to them, "It's totally mendable, I just haven't done that because. . ."? You'd basically have to tell them that they're buying a car that Tesla charges extortion fees to repair.

Even if you never want to repair your own car, even if you never want to go to a third party for repairs, you benefit greatly if you aren't single-sourced for repairs. Even if you will never take advantage of it, some other people will and, as such, Tesla would have to be competitive on price.

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