A rehash of http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/HighNotes.html
Haven't heard so much from Joel these days - sad :(
We Hire the Best, Just Like Everyone Else
21–30 of 373 posts
Re: We Hire the Best, Just Like Everyone Else
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here's a problem with audition projects: I would never be able to take part in one, since my current job contract has a clause forbidding me from simultaneously working for any competitor in the same field. (This is a German job contract; I don't know if such clauses are common in the US or elsewhere, too.) So in order to work on an audition project, I'd have to be unemployed already.
Unless it's not a competitor in the same filed.
Generally, I've come to believe that the 'field' that a company specifies they're in is intentionally left vague. I would assume that most people looking for a new job would more likely than not look for something in a similar industry, and be, in fact, infringing on such clauses if they did audition project work for other employers in said industry.
Re: We Hire the Best, Just Like Everyone Else
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
Audition project just substitute one bias for another. They also presuppose that those who will actually work with the candidate are somehow more enlightened and above bias than the standard interviewers.
That seems more like a question on how the candidate's work is measured. While there's always some bias, I think it shifts quite a bit once you move from an artificial "interview environment" to a work environment. Plus as has been said, since they candidates are working with the people they would be working if hired and that relationship doesn't work out, then maybe it's better to keep looking for someone else.
In my experience, those who must work with people 'on trial' hate doing so. They treat the entire experience as a chore, well aware that 90% of these people won't be around next month. That lack of commitment by the organization means those in control are only more free to express bias because they know the person at issue is already disenfranchised and weak.
Re: We Hire the Best, Just Like Everyone Else
#24This might be an unpopular opinion on HN, but another example of this problem manifests in the sheer volume of companies that require a HackerRank screening test these days. Apart from the clumsy web editor, recording someone under a time constraint means nothing in the larger context of how a programmer's actual work happens. Sigh. By using such automated tests, companies want to identify top talent by taking a shor…
The context of pressure is also not the same as the pressure from meeting deadlines at work, it is now about proving yourself in some set time.
I took one of these recently, and botched one of the tests. Within 10 minutes after the timer was up, I had restarted my solution with a successful answer and was iterating on it.
The idea that the pressure is the same doesn't seem to apply to all applicants. Doing work under pressure within set times has been a strength of mine(ex. playing chess against higher rated players or when timer is low). I've noticed, however, that my skills fall apart during interviews. Once again, totally different contexts where you're being tested.
Re: We Hire the Best, Just Like Everyone Else
#25This might be an unpopular opinion on HN, but another example of this problem manifests in the sheer volume of companies that require a HackerRank screening test these days. Apart from the clumsy web editor, recording someone under a time constraint means nothing in the larger context of how a programmer's actual work happens. Sigh. By using such automated tests, companies want to identify top talent by taking a shor…
People who ask for more complicated code than "reverse a string" or "fizzbuzz" in a remote code screen is doing it wrong.
People who can't code, compile, and run a fizzbuzz in an hour are probably not fit to be hired.
Asking someone to implement a proper Diffie-Hellman over Hackerrank is ludicrous, on the other hand. Interviewers should err on the side of stupidly simple problems. A surprising number of people can't code a loop in the languages on their resumes.
Re: We Hire the Best, Just Like Everyone Else
#26I really like this post, that most companies require workers to be at a specific location is very strange considering our type of work.
I don't want to work in Sillicon Valley, even if the work is interesting. I live in Scandinavia and for me scandinavian countries are the best to live in the world.
Re: We Hire the Best, Just Like Everyone Else
#27I really agree with the sentiment of audition projects. The interviews I have enjoyed the most all involved some sort of take-home project, although I have never been paid for one. On that note, how expensive does it become for a startup to dole out many interview projects across a wide range of candidates? I think a better strategy would be to conduct preliminary interviews and then based on some granularity, assign…
Here's a problem with audition projects: I would never be able to take part in one, since my current job contract has a clause forbidding me from simultaneously working for any competitor in the same field. (This is a German job contract; I don't know if such clauses are common in the US or elsewhere, too.) So in order to work on an audition project, I'd have to be unemployed already.
Talk with your solicitor. A lot of companies like to include such clauses in contracts even if they're not legally enforceable, particularly in the case of US companies operating in a country with relatively strong workers' rights like Germany.
Re: We Hire the Best, Just Like Everyone Else
#28I really agree with the sentiment of audition projects. The interviews I have enjoyed the most all involved some sort of take-home project, although I have never been paid for one. On that note, how expensive does it become for a startup to dole out many interview projects across a wide range of candidates? I think a better strategy would be to conduct preliminary interviews and then based on some granularity, assign…
Here's a problem with audition projects: I would never be able to take part in one, since my current job contract has a clause forbidding me from simultaneously working for any competitor in the same field. (This is a German job contract; I don't know if such clauses are common in the US or elsewhere, too.) So in order to work on an audition project, I'd have to be unemployed already.
I'm in the US and it'd be a breach of contract for me as well.
Re: We Hire the Best, Just Like Everyone Else
#29I work in the "boring" old insurance industry, based in the midwest. I love reading articles like these, and as I read them I get excited and say to myself "yea!" and "spot on!". But they seem to center around startups and Silicon Valley.
The truth is, when it comes to building, maintaining, and supporting internal, line of business apps, management isn't even pretending to look for high end talent. They want predictability, reliability, and someone who will "fit".
I wonder how many people out there fit my profile. That is, they get excited by reading blog posts like these from some of the thought leaders, and desperately want to apply the thinking to their own workplaces, but then feel like we aren't really the target audience.
Re: We Hire the Best, Just Like Everyone Else
#30My team does take-home project, a small problem to solve that should take at most a couple hours. It's the same problem for every candidate so we're judging them on common work. It's not real work, it's made up. In interviewing discussions in places like HN, there is enough pushback against this idea, which is a bit surprising to me. I thought a few hours work was reasonable when I was interviewing. But my point is t…
I think two hours for a small take-home project is reasonable. Otherwise the applicant would spend two hours in your offices anyway, right? More than two hours, though, and I can see the problem.