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Previously Downloaded OS X Installers No Longer Work

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Re: Previously Downloaded OS X Installers No Longer Work

#61

Post by username223 »

r00fus wrote: post #53
username223 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My latest pet peeve is `mds_stores` deciding it needs to spend forever using my iPod, so I can't unplug it without incurring a scolding. It's not hard for Mac OS to stay less terrible to configure than Linux, and less terrible to use than Windows, but that's a low bar.

Do you have your iPod configured in iTunes with "Enable disk use"? Sounds like Spotlight is trying to index it or something...

I probably do. Thanks to my partial understanding of how the software works, I can guess that `mds_` is Spotlight trying to index my music player, but I wouldn't want to try to explain it to my dad. Software that responds to "eject this" with "no, because f* you" because it is busy creating meta-data is user-hostile.

Re: Previously Downloaded OS X Installers No Longer Work

#62

Post by imron »

tlrobinson wrote: post #58
flohofwoe wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It means that the certificate was valid at the time of signing. Trying to sign an executable after the certificate has expired will not produce a valid code-signed executable. It totally makes sense. That it is possible to make the certificate valid by simply setting the system clock (this works both on Windows and according to the article, OSX) shows that the whole certificate expiration thing is basically useless.

I'm not sure I understand. It doesn't matter if the consumer of the certificate is able to set their clock to make the certificate/signature valid because most people don't do that, but if the producer of the signature can simply set their clock to produce a signature/timestamp combination that's considered valid by a consumer regardless of their clock, then what's the point of expiring the certificate? But yeah, it…

It gets timestamped by the certificate authority, using their authorized servers. For example, I have a code-signing certificate issued by Comodo, and when I sign my software, it get timestamped by: http://timestamp.comodoca.com

I can't simply set that clock.

Re: Previously Downloaded OS X Installers No Longer Work

#63

Post by khedoros »

developer2 wrote: post #51
donatj wrote: post #39

I had a handful of apps I use all the time stop working entirely about a week ago. They were purchased from the App Store but are no longer in the App Store. I am furious. I am willing to bet the expired certificate is the culprit. I've had to carefully maintain the .app's myself across a couple Mac's as Apple stopped letting you download things that are no longer in the store. Now they just don't work at all. The ol…

Let's not forget it's not exactly Apple's fault that some developers remove their apps from the App Store. While it's annoying, and we can wish all we want that Apple would make apps permanently available once downloaded, it's really the developer of the app that has failed you, not Apple.

Apple introduced a change that make a developer removing their software from the market be more damaging than it used to.

Say that I buy a piece of software and receive either an installer download or some medium containing the software. The company removes it from the market. I can still perform new installs of their software.

I buy something from an app store. The developer removes it from said store, making it inaccessible for future installs. This developer did the same thing that the other one did, but I'm worse off. How is it more the fault of the developer than Apple/Google/Amazon/Microsoft/Valve/EA/etc? Who changed the way that software distribution works?

Re: Previously Downloaded OS X Installers No Longer Work

#64

Post by dingo_bat »

All of this is just more evidence driving me away from using any kind of app store. I download and install apks on my android phone, and executable/tar installers on my computers. It's also the reason why I'll never buy an iOS device, or even open the Windows 10 store.

Re: Previously Downloaded OS X Installers No Longer Work

#65

Post by wwweston »

mikeash wrote: post #19
garrettgrimsley wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not related to their release schedule, it has to do with the certificates used to validate software. You can view an explanation of application level code signing here [0] and the concepts also apply to signing OS images. [0] https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/Securi...

I believe they're saying that it is related to Apple's release schedule because having a hard deadline every year and a fixed feature set for that hard deadline means that you run into problems with quality. I would dearly love for Apple to take a year or two (or, hell, five, I'm happy with the current feature set) and just fix bugs. No new features, just bugs. Do another Snow Leopard release, or three.

The funny thing is you can kindof tell Apple sortof heard the complaints out there, and that some of the buzz around El Capitan was that this is what it was supposed to be.

From what El Capitan is... it seems reasonable to conclude that either they simply don't have the management/talent to pull this off anymore, or they only care enough to pretend to do it rather than actually focus on it.

Re: Previously Downloaded OS X Installers No Longer Work

#66

Post by mystikal »

contingencies wrote: post #56
comex wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that that isn't awful, but 2Mbps is 4 times slower than 1MB/s...

Sure. Actually we rarely get even that, except on domestic transfers. 1MB/sec is best-case, torrent-only scenario ~1-5AM. Makes you value mirror operators.

Around 300 kB/sec lets you get 1GB/hour, which means you can get a perfectly watchable 1080p movie in 2 hours. Yes it's nice now that I have 3 MB/sec down, but it wasn't hell before and I lived with that for 10+ years. Many people still have this kind of connection - typically billed as 5000 down / 800 up. Streaming, I have no idea.

Re: Previously Downloaded OS X Installers No Longer Work

#67

Post by pyre »

mikeash wrote: post #17
filsmick wrote: post #10

I was bitten by this this week. Tried to reuse my installer to install OS X El Capitan on a MBP without redownloading it over my super-fast 2Mbps internet connection. First, I try to install it by just copying the installer app - "can't be verified". Then I make a bootable USB stick using DiskMaker X - "can't be verified". I run an integrity check on the installer - all good. I then try running `/path/to/Install\ OS\…

Apple is just awful about providing meaningful, useful errors. The worst is AirPlay. When it fails to connect, which is about 33% of the time, there's nothing. It doesn't even pop up a generic alert, it just silently (or not so silently, if you're playing music) reverts to local playback. Many other examples abound. Most errors at least provide a message, but one so generic as to be useless.

Ugh. At work, the computers use AirWatch. Oh. My. God. They fill the OSX logs with debug messages. Literally "I got 8 bytes from this with this offset" type messages for an application that spends most of its time running in the background. Here is an example:

  2016-03-03 10:59:16.863 PM AirWatch Agent[507]: void AgentReadCallback(NSData *__strong, NSFileHandle *__strong) [Line 1096] Agent received message of type 140
  2016-03-03 10:59:16.863 PM AirWatch Agent[507]: -[AWAgentController isCurrentUserManaged] [Line 221] Current User is managed
  2016-03-03 10:59:16.863 PM AirWatch Agent[507]: Server Starting new loop for data
  2016-03-03 10:59:26.825 PM AirWatch Agent[507]: void AgentReadCallback(NSData *__strong, NSFileHandle *__strong) [Line 1096] Agent received message of type 140
  2016-03-03 10:59:26.831 PM AirWatch Agent[507]: -[AWAgentController isCurrentUserManaged] [Line 221] Current User is managed
  2016-03-03 10:59:26.832 PM AirWatch Agent[507]: Server Starting new loop for data
Is this normal operating procedure for OSX apps? Fill the system.log with print statements in a loop that runs every ~10 seconds?

Re: Previously Downloaded OS X Installers No Longer Work

#68

Post by x0x0 »

13thLetter wrote: post #55
x0x0 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or TimeMachine "sparsebundle already in use" is the FOAD of error messages. I do love how the (now stale) tools to fix this are maintained by a volunteer on an external site unrelated to apple. I try not to be too grumpy about it, but I paid $3k for a laptop not to have to fucking deal with windows-style normal operation of the OS and related tools is busted and you're gonna sink hours into debugging it. And least wh…

I switched from OSX Yosemite to Windows 8.1 a while back. I have had substantially fewer problems with Windows 8.1.

hmm. windows 10's inability to not talk to microsoft skeeves me out though.

Re: Previously Downloaded OS X Installers No Longer Work

#69

Post by marvy »

phusion wrote: post #59
contingencies wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

super-fast 2Mbps internet connection Don't complain. Even with torrents and 100Mbps fiber, we max out at 1MB/sec here. It reportedly costs 20,000CNY/month (~USD$4500) for an uninhibited 512k connection out of mainland China, if you can get it. (You generally can't.)

YOU don't complain, even though it's slow, at least it isn't metered :/ I get 10GB/mo and it's $15 for every GB I go over. I'm a "giant pirate" and would usually go through that in an afternoon when I had comcrap. Oh well.

$15/GB is a lot. My cell phone plan charges only $5.

Re: Previously Downloaded OS X Installers No Longer Work

#70

Post by rbritton »

pyre wrote: post #67
mikeash wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is just awful about providing meaningful, useful errors. The worst is AirPlay. When it fails to connect, which is about 33% of the time, there's nothing. It doesn't even pop up a generic alert, it just silently (or not so silently, if you're playing music) reverts to local playback. Many other examples abound. Most errors at least provide a message, but one so generic as to be useless.

Ugh. At work, the computers use AirWatch. Oh. My. God. They fill the OSX logs with debug messages. Literally "I got 8 bytes from this with this offset" type messages for an application that spends most of its time running in the background. Here is an example: 2016-03-03 10:59:16.863 PM AirWatch Agent[507]: void AgentReadCallback(NSData *__strong, NSFileHandle *__strong) [Line 1096] Agent received message of type 140…

It is for those that leave their debug logging enabled. A lot of code I've seen uses CocoaLumberjack[0] or something similar, which makes it easy to turn that off for production builds.

[0]: https://github.com/CocoaLumberjack/CocoaLumberjack

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