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Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

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Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#291

Post by CWuestefeld »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #272
CWuestefeld wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many businesses out there. Make your employment decisions based on your values. I don't have children, and won't be having any. You seem to be saying that I have to subsidize your childcare leave.

Yes, because, shockingly, both parents caring for babies helps society as a whole. Maybe you should stop being selfish instead of making it hard for others to have families. There have been studies that have shown fathers are far more involved in their kid's lives by taking paternal leave. It also means that the parents will both be far more productive post-leave as they would have developed more balanced responsibil…

Society is helped by having healthy babies, yes.

You haven't provided any support for your argument that I, as someone without children, must be made to subsidize the family choices of others.

The resources to cover the extended work absence of the parents has to come from somewhere. In many cases, it'll be one past parent covering a new parent, and then vice-versa. But those of us who can't have children (a) don't get to have children, yet (b) are stuck holding the bag having to pay the costs for others'. Isn't that kind of adding insult to injury for people who can't have babies?

So how is it that you get to make the decision for all of society, such that it must be a one-size-fits-all law, and people aren't allowed to negotiate for the terms that make the most sense for their own personal situation.

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#292

Post by msabalau »

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #29
ahoy wrote: post #15

This is fairly consistent with other studies. The "77%" number is arrived at by comparing the median wage of full-time male & female employees. It doesn't account for differences in industry, job title, experience, etc. It's super broad. That doesn't mean we should ignore it, but it means we need more granularity. Coming out of uni/grad school, male and female salaries are equal in comparable fields. They depart a fe…

>It doesn't account for differences in industry, job title, experience, etc. It's super broad. It also doesn't account for full time covering a wide number of hours worked. Full time can be 37 hours a week or 45 hours a week, can comparing them as both just being 'full time' misses quite a lot. >This is in large part because care for family members(children and elderly parents usually) is more often foisted upon wome…

> How it is more often foisted upon women?

According to the 2015 Report Caregiving in the US, 60% of caregivers are women, and half of caregivers report having no choice in undertaking caregiving.

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#293

Post by LunaSea »

marssaxman wrote: post #142
softawre wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly are you asking for? At ININ, we have core hours of 10-4, and you can fill out the rest however you want. Seems a decent compromise for a salary employee gig. If you want real flexible hours you can always do contract work or start a business.

I don't want to do contract work or start a business (again). That would make the problem worse, not better, because I'd have to spend more of my time on my job in order to make a living, and the additional time would be spent on tasks I enjoy less and am not as good at as the work I do which is the focus of my career. The point is that I have a wide variety of interests and to me a good life is one where I get to pu…

Isn't what you are asking for just simply a part-time job?

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#294

Post by euyyn »

losteric wrote: post #255
cortesoft wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your second question is tricky to answer, so I am going to ignore it. :D For your first question, I always think the key is choice and support for people who make choices that are counter to the norm. Sure, it might be that when given a choice free of social pressures, more women might still choose to be the primary caregiver for children than men will. That is fine, and women and men who make that socially tradition…

Part of my comment was questioning the meaning of support. Are we talking emotional support, and simply being accepting of other's identity? Are we taxing some roles and subsidizing others to normalize economic freedom? What if the market also has inherent preferences that mirror natural preferences? Do we actively recruit youth and try to get them into under-represented roles? What about undesirable roles? I don't k…

In the case of the software industry in the US, the companies themselves have a strong economic incentive to get school girls to choose engineering careers. It'd almost double the pool of hiring candidates. So it's something that the market eventually balances, only maybe not fast enough.

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#295

Post by pavel_lishin »

ahoy wrote: post #15

This is fairly consistent with other studies. The "77%" number is arrived at by comparing the median wage of full-time male & female employees. It doesn't account for differences in industry, job title, experience, etc. It's super broad. That doesn't mean we should ignore it, but it means we need more granularity. Coming out of uni/grad school, male and female salaries are equal in comparable fields. They depart a fe…

New father here. My current employer provides two weeks of paternal leave. I ended up taking a third week of vacation time to extend this, which I'm in now.

It still doesn't feel like it's enough. I'm exhausted today, despite taking a mid-day nap. When I go back next week, I will not be at my best, and there's no way of me being at my best short of sleeping in another room with earplugs while my wife does 100% of the (often literal) heavy lifting of child care.

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#296

Post by Swizec »

losteric wrote: post #255
cortesoft wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your second question is tricky to answer, so I am going to ignore it. :D For your first question, I always think the key is choice and support for people who make choices that are counter to the norm. Sure, it might be that when given a choice free of social pressures, more women might still choose to be the primary caregiver for children than men will. That is fine, and women and men who make that socially tradition…

Part of my comment was questioning the meaning of support. Are we talking emotional support, and simply being accepting of other's identity? Are we taxing some roles and subsidizing others to normalize economic freedom? What if the market also has inherent preferences that mirror natural preferences? Do we actively recruit youth and try to get them into under-represented roles? What about undesirable roles? I don't k…

> simpler stuff like getting rid of stereotypes.

That's this part of your comment: "emotional support", "accepting of other's identity", "taxing some roles and subsidizing others", "undesirable roles". Those all come out of stereotypes.

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#297

Post by baddox »

st3v3r wrote: post #248
apta wrote: post #240

> What if it's a natural preference given It is known that women tend to be more emotional than men for instance. As such, they do well in nurturing roles like you described. I'm not saying that men can't do them, it's just that more women feel "at home" doing that kind of work.

Is that a natural thing? Or is it because emotions are considered "unmanly"?

The answer to both of those questions could be Yes.

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#298

Post by johngalt »

frandroid wrote: post #193
hnal943 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why we want a society where everyone is trying to both parent and work full time. Specialization is a powerful tool. Speaking personally it makes a lot more sense for my wife to stay home and have primary responsibility for raising our kids and managing our household while I focus on my career. Implicit in this discussion is that the woman who choose flexibility and child-rearing options are oppres…

The problem is that we're forcing women to specialize in child-rearing, which is not economically valued or rewarded, and men to specialize in earning income, which wields huge social and economic power. And the reason this happens is that men withhold their parenting labour, and women are forced to pick up the slack. It's just like the feminist saying... "If men got pregnant, abortion would be available free of char…

> we're forcing women to specialize in child-rearing

I see no evidence of any force being applied. Women are free to chose their own relationship types same as men. Exceptionally few choose to be breadwinner supporting a stay at home father. Vastly more choose to be stay at home mom married to an income earning dad.

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#299

Post by dragonwriter »

wbillingsley wrote: post #290
hnal943 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why we want a society where everyone is trying to both parent and work full time. Specialization is a powerful tool. Speaking personally it makes a lot more sense for my wife to stay home and have primary responsibility for raising our kids and managing our household while I focus on my career. Implicit in this discussion is that the woman who choose flexibility and child-rearing options are oppres…

Essentially, it happens from a tax perspective. Governments try to push up "workforce participation" to increase tax revenues and reduce benefits outlays, and increasing the incentives for women to go back to work a few months after childbirth is part of that. From their perspective, a childcare centre with a staff:child ratio of 1:4 is more efficient than a stay-at-home mum with a nine month old baby at 1:1 (and the…

> Governments try to push up "workforce participation" to increase tax revenues and reduce benefits outlays, and increasing the incentives for women to go back to work a few months after childbirth is part of that.

This theory conflicts with the fact that the trend over time has been toward more support for parental leave, not less, on the part of government.

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#300

Post by nxzero »

eli wrote: post #66
nxzero wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Coming out of uni/grad school, male and female salaries are equal in comparable fields." Given that there's more female that graduate now, there's still bias in the process, just not the bias people hope to find.

In STEM? Far fewer women graduate with CS degrees than men. I think that percentage is actually declining.

Have a source? My understanding is that there's been an overall decline in stem degrees; meaning that, if there's a gap, it's not due to gender bias or a lack of opportunities for a given gender. Basically, I don't buy it, but happy to be proven wrong too.
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