Earlier quoted context omitted.
How are legalizing drugs and legalizing crime in any way analogous? Legalizing crime doesn't even make sense, by definition.
Extralegal mobs that keep out drug dealers.
Downvoted by an abolitionist!
Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
321–330 of 376 posts
Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
And yet, there are plenty of Asian countries (Singapore, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Japan, etc) where drug laws are much stricter than the US's, there are very few drug addicts, and there is very little crime.
I really find it absurd that stating facts is downvoted here on HN because it doesn't fit the hivemind. Singapore and Indonesia execute drug offenders and despite what I am told should happen in this thread, there is very little crime despite their crazier "War on Drugs". When compared to a country like Portugal, Singapore and Indonesia have far lower crime and drug use.
In college I smoked weed over Skype with someone in Indonesia and their buddies. They didn't really go out of their way to buy it either.
It's probably very underreported (because otherwise they would be executing a ton of people).
Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
#323Earlier quoted context omitted.
Geneva is something like 0.1% black. If in 5 years of buying drugs, you find that ~80% of your dealers are black, then I think you can make the assumption that most drug dealers in Geneva are black. I don't see that as racism - that's just a statement of fact. Now, if you carried that one step further and said that black people in Geneva are probably drug dealers, then yeah, that's racist...
I think the idea is that the racial parenthetical is completely irrelevant. It adds no meaning except to underline the point about "shady characters."
that was not the intent... those guys have probably some tough lives behind them and no future here, living often without permit on the fringe of society. it's just that meeting them in dark alleys after dark, being surrounded by suspicion etc. ain't activity I do for pleasure or some weird kick out of it; just a necessary evil.
Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
#324Earlier quoted context omitted.
The drug prohibition is a direct effect of the lift of alcohol prohibition: officials and LE officers needed something to do after there was no more alcohol smuggling to go after, so a new target was invented. Public opinion does not drive policy in this case, it is driven by policy. The public has been whipped up into a frenzy about drugs for years using various fear tactics, primarily racism to scare them into havi…
> The drug prohibition is a direct effect of the lift of alcohol prohibition: officials and LE officers needed something to do after there was no more alcohol smuggling to go after, so a new target was invented. That's a ridiculous proposition. There was a 40+ year gap between the two. > The public has been whipped up into a frenzy about drugs for years using various fear tactics Nixon coined the term "drug war" in 1…
The 1936 classic "Reefer Madness" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reefer_Madness ) would like a word with you about how all was hunky dory in the world of drugs between Prohibition and Nixon...
Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
#325Forget questions of legality. Stop and ask this question: Why do we as a society need more and more and MORE mind-altering substances to cope with life? Seriously. Is society headed in the right direction if almost everyone needs some type of external chemical influence just to get through the week? I already have an answer.
Forget your answer.
Stop and ask this question: Why do we as a society need more and more and MORE stimuli to cope with life?
Seriously.
Is society headed in the right direction if almost everyone needs some type of external influence just to get through the week?
I already have a answer.
Problem is, every time you fire up a computer or a phone or a TV, you're seeking a stimulus which is going to fire off chemical signals in your brain. Your mind CRAVES the stuff. You COULD just sit around creating things all the time and stimulating yourself, but that's not convenient, is it? Drugs just eliminate the bullshit by applying direct stimulus without the idiot boxes, or obviously unnecessary items like books or live performances.
Oh, and drop the coffee and tea. And sugar. And salt. And any food that tastes good. You don't need those either. External chemical influences, after all.
Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
#326Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Impressionable children are indoctrinated against drug use, by US law enforcement, in US public schools. If you mean things like DARE, its worth noting that studies of DARE have shown that (despite its name and how it is sold to parents, etc.) it has no effect on participant's attitudes toward (or propensity for) drug use, but does make their attitudes toward law enforcement more positive.
>t has no effect on participant's attitudes toward (or propensity for) drug use Which is really crazy, if you think about it. Multiple years of training and indoctrination have no effect. In some ways, that gives me hope for America.
The cynical view is that DARE is pro-law-enforcement training and indoctrination, where the anti-drug focus is simply window-dressing to sell the program to parents and the public.
Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
#327Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annual_cannabis_use_by_country In the Netherlands, where marijuana is effectively legal†, the percentage of the population aged 15-64 which has used the drug at least once in the past year was 5.4 (2005). In the US the data was from 2009 (pre-legalization in Oregon and Colorado), and was 13.7% Anecdata: I've lived in both places, weed just isn't as cool in NL as it is in the US. † Use of…
When I was quite a bit younger and did a semester abroad (from the US) I became friends with several Dutch students in our dorm/hostel. I remember, being the naive 19-year-old that I was, asking how cool it was that weed was legal there and stuff like that. They mostly looked at me with a tolerant but exhausted expression and said that it was more of a tourist thing. The impression I got was that it was treated by ev…
I wonder if this is related to quality of life. A country like the Netherlands with stronger social services/safety nets and more 'liveable' cities must have much better quality of life for the bottom quintile of society compared to the states, and it's that quintile that is most likely to get addicted/cause other social problems.
It seems like a common thread through people getting addicted to drugs is trying to find an escape for a crappy/desperate life, so logically if it's less crappy people won't need an escape as much, right?
Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
#328The drug problem was studied years ago by the RAND corporation and the US Military - a pure cost-benefit analysis. They found that treatment and education are the most cost effective way to deal with the drug problem, and that prohibition was the most costly and ineffective means of dealing with it. Therefore the government understands that the war on drugs is likely to be unsuccessful, and we have to ask ourselves,…
Therefore the government understands
NNo, some people who work in the government understand that. Others have conflicting interests of cognitive biases or are stupid or have other reasons for disagreeing. 'The government' is simply not a monolithic entity and outside of certain narrow legal contexts pretending that it is leads to fallacious conclusions.
Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
#329The drug problem was studied years ago by the RAND corporation and the US Military - a pure cost-benefit analysis. They found that treatment and education are the most cost effective way to deal with the drug problem, and that prohibition was the most costly and ineffective means of dealing with it. Therefore the government understands that the war on drugs is likely to be unsuccessful, and we have to ask ourselves,…
The government persists with the drug war because Americans have a moral opposition to drug use: http://www.jhsph.edu/news/news-releases/2014/study-public-fe... . When I was a kid in the 1990's, 70-80% of polled adults wanted to make even marijuana illegal. For drugs aside from marijuana, that's still the case. Your alternate theories about money and control directly contradict the history of prohibition. Did you kno…
> women's' suffrage happened when it did so they could vote for prohibition
Woman's suffrage happened after the prohibition. The prohibition was the 18th amendment (taking effect on January 16, 1920), and woman's suffrage was the 19th amendment (ratified on August 18, 1920).
Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
#330Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the idea is that the racial parenthetical is completely irrelevant. It adds no meaning except to underline the point about "shady characters."
that was not the intent... those guys have probably some tough lives behind them and no future here, living often without permit on the fringe of society. it's just that meeting them in dark alleys after dark, being surrounded by suspicion etc. ain't activity I do for pleasure or some weird kick out of it; just a necessary evil.
OK, but their race is still irrelevant.