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Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

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Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#311
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The history said, in this case, that money and power did not win the dispute, not that their influence does not exist or should be considered negligible. So, if in the case of drugs, society moral standards, money and power are all at the same side; what's the chance of grassroot movement changing the laws? That question was not rethorical, but giving my own answer, I think the path is changing the perceptio…

You're ignoring a morally significant dimension to the problem. Nobody becomes a drug addict by accident. They choose to do drugs and take the risk not just of bodily harm, but of becoming unable to support their families and becoming a burden on society. And your suggestion is that society should spend money to treat them of an illness that was their fault to begin with. I happen to agree with you that treatment, no…

Alcohol is a drug, it is known for certain to be toxic, its abuse, and possibly even use (over years) is harmful.... yet society allows its use and even promotes it (and in Britain, its abuse is encouraged)

Yet alcoholics tend to be regarded as having an illness and are not treated as criminals, as opposed to what heroin addicts go through. Any discussion of the drug war that doesn't involve a discussion of the hypocrisy around alcohol is sorely lacking. And the drug war is about users - the UK government is currently stealthily spreading fear based propaganda around cannabis use through charity type organizations that are not obviously tied to the government.

And morality? Forget it. There really is no such thing as morality in Western societies today, except around the extreme things like pedophilia... and even then, that was hidden under the rug for decades - e.g. Jimmy Savile or the Catholic Church. Trying to bring morality into this sort of discussion is a feint. Morality tends to be an excuse for authoritarian attitudes and positions.

The best solution is to have an informed populace. Harm minimization and a more sophisticated understanding around altered states and psychological/spiritual issues by society. But that sort of thing does not mesh well with the agenda of a lot of politicians and other people.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#312

The drug problem was studied years ago by the RAND corporation and the US Military - a pure cost-benefit analysis. They found that treatment and education are the most cost effective way to deal with the drug problem, and that prohibition was the most costly and ineffective means of dealing with it. Therefore the government understands that the war on drugs is likely to be unsuccessful, and we have to ask ourselves,…

> And the fact that Tobacco and Alcohol companies would likely suffer as a result of drug legalisation, like cannabis.

is that true? these things aren't really mutually exclusive right? this is just my supposition, but I would imagine that there is market synergy between legal cannabis and alcohol and tobacco.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#313
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government persists with the drug war because Americans have a moral opposition to drug use: http://www.jhsph.edu/news/news-releases/2014/study-public-fe... . When I was a kid in the 1990's, 70-80% of polled adults wanted to make even marijuana illegal. For drugs aside from marijuana, that's still the case. Your alternate theories about money and control directly contradict the history of prohibition. Did you kno…

The drug prohibition is a direct effect of the lift of alcohol prohibition: officials and LE officers needed something to do after there was no more alcohol smuggling to go after, so a new target was invented. Public opinion does not drive policy in this case, it is driven by policy. The public has been whipped up into a frenzy about drugs for years using various fear tactics, primarily racism to scare them into havi…

  > Public opinion does not drive policy in this case, it is driven by policy. 
If that were true, then marijuana wouldn't have been legalized in various states as soon as public opinion favored it.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#314
post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it true that > The government persists with the drug war because Americans have a moral opposition to drug use: or > Americans have a moral opposition to drug use, because the government persists with the drug war ? Impressionable children are indoctrinated against drug use, by US law enforcement, in US public schools. > 70-80% of polled adults wanted to make even marijuana illegal. That's impossible, because mari…

> Impressionable children are indoctrinated against drug use, by US law enforcement, in US public schools. If you mean things like DARE, its worth noting that studies of DARE have shown that (despite its name and how it is sold to parents, etc.) it has no effect on participant's attitudes toward (or propensity for) drug use, but does make their attitudes toward law enforcement more positive.

  >t has no effect on participant's attitudes toward (or propensity for) drug use
Which is really crazy, if you think about it. Multiple years of training and indoctrination have no effect. In some ways, that gives me hope for America.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#315

The drug problem was studied years ago by the RAND corporation and the US Military - a pure cost-benefit analysis. They found that treatment and education are the most cost effective way to deal with the drug problem, and that prohibition was the most costly and ineffective means of dealing with it. Therefore the government understands that the war on drugs is likely to be unsuccessful, and we have to ask ourselves,…

> And the fact that Tobacco and Alcohol companies would likely suffer as a result of drug legalisation, like cannabis. is that true? these things aren't really mutually exclusive right? this is just my supposition, but I would imagine that there is market synergy between legal cannabis and alcohol and tobacco.

The conspiracy theory I hear more often that is quite a bit more believable (though still a conspiracy theory) is that legalization would be harmful to pharmaceutical companies, based on the idea that is way more profitable to get people hooked on prescription opioids or such than have them manage long-term pain by smoking weed.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#316
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The history said, in this case, that money and power did not win the dispute, not that their influence does not exist or should be considered negligible. So, if in the case of drugs, society moral standards, money and power are all at the same side; what's the chance of grassroot movement changing the laws? That question was not rethorical, but giving my own answer, I think the path is changing the perceptio…

You're ignoring a morally significant dimension to the problem. Nobody becomes a drug addict by accident. They choose to do drugs and take the risk not just of bodily harm, but of becoming unable to support their families and becoming a burden on society. And your suggestion is that society should spend money to treat them of an illness that was their fault to begin with. I happen to agree with you that treatment, no…

> The drug war is aimed not at users, but mainly at importers and purveyors.

oh please. go tell that to the black community.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#317
post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I am not racist or anything, but 100% of them in Geneva are black - that's 5 years of experience" ...it doesn't seem far of a stretch to make the leap to using your statement here to indicate that you may in fact be racist. There was no reason to indicate their race, so why do it? Did they have blue eyes, too? What can I infer from shady blue-eyed people on street corners selling me drugs?

Geneva is something like 0.1% black. If in 5 years of buying drugs, you find that ~80% of your dealers are black, then I think you can make the assumption that most drug dealers in Geneva are black. I don't see that as racism - that's just a statement of fact. Now, if you carried that one step further and said that black people in Geneva are probably drug dealers, then yeah, that's racist...

I think the idea is that the racial parenthetical is completely irrelevant. It adds no meaning except to underline the point about "shady characters."

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And the fact that Tobacco and Alcohol companies would likely suffer as a result of drug legalisation, like cannabis. is that true? these things aren't really mutually exclusive right? this is just my supposition, but I would imagine that there is market synergy between legal cannabis and alcohol and tobacco.

The conspiracy theory I hear more often that is quite a bit more believable (though still a conspiracy theory) is that legalization would be harmful to pharmaceutical companies, based on the idea that is way more profitable to get people hooked on prescription opioids or such than have them manage long-term pain by smoking weed.

its not exactly a conspiracy, is it? that implies that it is a secret and this is not a secret. pharmaceuticals DO directly compete with cannabis. they manufacturers of those drugs have a clear motive in opposing legalization of a competitor.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're ignoring a morally significant dimension to the problem. Nobody becomes a drug addict by accident. They choose to do drugs and take the risk not just of bodily harm, but of becoming unable to support their families and becoming a burden on society. And your suggestion is that society should spend money to treat them of an illness that was their fault to begin with. I happen to agree with you that treatment, no…

I was prescribed Xanax, for anxiety attacks. The doctor verbally said to take it as needed, but did not warn of addictive potential. The bottle however, states to take 2x daily, no warning about addiction. Luckily, I am educated and intelligent, so I avoid taking it unless absolutely necessary, and now go months without needing it. I have friends who were not so lucky - they interpreted "as needed" as to mean "as the…

touching story... nowhere I ever lived in europe I met people that got hooked on these prescription drugs (and even ended up worse), at least I didn't know. is this just my case? or some laws in US are less prohibitive (but where are the doctor's morals? don't tell me all are rotten)

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was prescribed Xanax, for anxiety attacks. The doctor verbally said to take it as needed, but did not warn of addictive potential. The bottle however, states to take 2x daily, no warning about addiction. Luckily, I am educated and intelligent, so I avoid taking it unless absolutely necessary, and now go months without needing it. I have friends who were not so lucky - they interpreted "as needed" as to mean "as the…

touching story... nowhere I ever lived in europe I met people that got hooked on these prescription drugs (and even ended up worse), at least I didn't know. is this just my case? or some laws in US are less prohibitive (but where are the doctor's morals? don't tell me all are rotten)

http://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/pdf/hhs_prescription_drug_ab...

you might find this interesting reading then. here's a quote from the executive summary.

> The United States is in the midst of an unprecedented drug overdose epidemic. Drug overdose death rates have increased five-fold since 1980.1 By 2009, drug overdose deaths outnumbered deaths due to motor vehicle crashes for the first time in the U.S. Prescription drugs, especially opioid analgesics, have been increasingly involved in drug overdose deaths.

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